11 replies to this topic

[taisner]

Happy Holidays eveyone

I'm new to this and hoping you can help.

 

A little background...My love, Dexter, is a gorgeous 4-year-old GSD who I believe is allergic to grains and possibly chicken - itching big time when he eats them. He has been eating a grain-free, chicken-free diet for several years now, although he hasn't been tested. When he had stomach issues a few months ago I cooked him chicken and rice; he loved it.  He has seasonal allergies so I wasn't able to tell if the chicken affected him too  - I know...bad mommy!   He has eaten other raw meats in the past - I didn't think to not mix raw and kibble, so I know he loves pork and beef etc....

 

My dilemma...How can I introduce him to the PMR diet without chicken?  I foolishly bought a chicken quarter to see if he would eat it (removed the leg bone) and he just sniffed and looked at it -he didn't eat it. I so know he needs to be on a raw diet and am ready to get him started.

Really would love to hear your experiences and suggestions ♥

[lindseydomanik]

I am still fairly new to raw feeding, so I know that the other seasoned feeders will probably be of more help.

However, my dog was also experiencing digestive issues with chicken-based kibble. When we rescued him, he was eating Ol Roy, so we switched him as soon as we could to Blue Buffalo Wilderness for Puppies (the cat was eating Blue Buffalo and loved it, and we really didn't research - just wanted him on something better than what he was eating). He had lots of on/off runny stools, terrible gas, and was super itchy. The next food I tried was Natural Instinct for Puppies, which was better than BB but still had chicken - the itchiness was slightly better, but his bowels were still unhappy. I spoke to the woman at our local mom and pop pet store, and she suggested that it might be an issue with his food - and that we should try some single source protein food as a method of elimination. The first kibble I chose was bison-based, no chicken products. The change was almost instantaneous. We tried salmon, turkey, duck, and beef kibbles after that, and he was still doing awesome. On a hunch, I tried some chicken-based kibble, and after two days the itching started again, and his poop was loose after 2 meals. After a few months of food testing, I came to the conclusion that Milo had issues with chicken - never got him tested, but it was easy to see how he was reacting so we stayed away. So, our issues sound similar to yours.
I was super nervous to start him on raw chicken, as I was positive that he would start having reactions again. But, aside from a few loose poops the first few days, he's doing absolutely fantastic! He's had raw chicken in his diet for almost a month now (we've got turkey in there too at this point), and his poops are healthy, and there's no sign of itching.
Everything I researched before starting raw suggested that dogs who have issues with certain proteins in kibble generally do just fine with the raw whole protein - mostly because it's not processed to the point that it no longer resembles the original meat. There are even theories out there that suggest dog kibble allergies might be related to the way meats are processed and altered and enhanced, and that the allergies may have nothing to do with the meat itself.

Sorry for the novel! I've totally been in your shoes though, and long story short, my guy had issues with chicken in kibble, and is happy and healthy after almost a month of eating it raw. I'd encourage you to try starting your pup on chicken (and it might take a few tries to get the pup eating raw - some dogs don't take to it's quickly as others), and give it a little time to see if he's reacting to it like he did with the kibble.

[taisner]

@lindseydomanik

Thank you so much - that is really encouraging!  The fact that he turned his nose up at it made me think he intuitively knew he had an issue with it (I know, I know)...but I will try again and perhaps it's just a case of him getting used to it. 

[naturalfeddogs]

Have you tried just raw chicken, not cooked with no rice? Yes the grains could be an issue, but cooked meat is also totally different from raw. So given time, you may see that raw chicken isn't actually a problem. During transition, you would only be on raw chicken for about two weeks. 

 

Allergies to raw proteins are rare, but do happen sometimes. If it turns out chicken is an issue, after two weeks you will move on to turkey anyway, so then you see if chicken was the problem. And it could possibly take more than two weeks to see a difference. 

 

Keep asking all the questions you can think of, and we will gladly help you! 

[Prey Model Raw]

Welcome! I've seen dogs who have been diagnosed allergic to chicken do perfectly on raw chicken. Cooking chicken denatures the proteins making them trigger an allergic response.

I would still use chicken as one of your rotational proteins but maybe start out with turkey as your first introductory protein.

[Iorveth]

I have a dog who's stomach just doesn't tolerate a whole meal of raw chicken. It gives him the runs, big time. With him, we just quit trying to make chicken work and skipped straight to turkey. In the future, I wouldn't hesitate to skip chicken when introducing a dog to raw if he was known to have an issue with it. However, like Natalie said, raw chicken and cooked chicken can have a different effect on a dog. 

[jagger]

It seems we have a poultry issue.

 

This dog was never what one would call overall healthy, bald dry spots, scratching, sensitive feet, weepy eyes, chewing on himself. He would literally rake his hind quarters with his teeth, it was pitiful to watch. Different vets tried and suggested different things to try. He was always a bundle of energy, ready to go at moments notice but just not looking his best. He's 3 now, for the first year of his life he was fed poultry kibble - chicken based mostly. We switched him to other so-called high quality kibbles with limited success, different baths and ear cleaners helped but again, limited success.

 

We switched to raw and started in on raw chicken, symptoms seemed to get worse but we thought it was part of the detox process he was going through. More hair fell out, his ear canals were moist and infected, more chewing and scratching. We had an episode with cooked turkey that confirmed our (and the vets) suspicions. He's definitely allergic to chicken - possibly poultry in general be it raw, cooked or kibble.

 

We started feeding whole raw rabbit as suggested here as the base, bison meat as secondary and different organs thrown in. Brand new dog running around the condo. 

[Prey Model Raw]

Glad to hear that rabbit was the trick!

[naturalfeddogs]

I'm so glad rabbit worked for you! I have a time with my dogs and rabbit. They will eat wild rabbit, but just don't care for domestic rabbit. 

[posburyfan]

@lindseydomanik

Thank you so much - that is really encouraging!  The fact that he turned his nose up at it made me think he intuitively knew he had an issue with it (I know, I know)...but I will try again and perhaps it's just a case of him getting used to it. 

Mine reacted exactly the same to kibble that included chicken. I am barfing her since approximately 7 months and just started to switch her over to PMR last week.Interestingly she reacts exactly the same to raw chicken as yours does. She sniffs it and turns away, only after a couple of days of fasting did she eat chicken and unfortunately the itching that had been gone when on barf (chicken-free) has come back again. Since she is not completely new to raw, I think I will just skip the chicken now.

[Jennifer]

This was a super helpful thread. For those who have a dog that definitely can't tolerate raw chicken, try turkey, quail, or duck. Those might be a good way to start with PMR. Although, depending on the severity of the allergy, turkey and quail might also cause issues. I started with chicken, but I'll share a little about my dogs in case it can help others.

 

I started my dogs on raw 10 months ago. Dino, my black and tan, went through what I thought was a detox process. Very itchy, dry flaky skin, lots of ear wax. The girls had some flakey skin, but not as much. After a couple months of chicken I added some rabbit and quail, followed by whole piglets. For a couple months they had a mix of all four proteins and I noticed the itching lessened, but I thought it was just the detox ending. I went through my chicken supply and stuck to the rabbit, quail, and pork and only now did I realize the itching subsided at that point. Recently I restocked my freezer after finishing my stockpile and I picked up more chicken. Dino started itching a lot, and I thought it was because of the heat and fleas. We took care of the fleas, but he still itches and chews on his legs every so often. Now I realize it might be a chicken allergy (I'm embarrassed it took me this long to realize it!)

 

They were on lamb kibble from Canidae when I got them. They were pretty healthy, but we're putting on a lot of weight unless I cut back greatly on portions, and if I cut back they'd result to eating "leftovers" outside. Their stool was also super smelly, from the cooked lamb formula kibble. Researching ways to change this is when I found out about PMR. I briefly tried other kibble brands and protein formulas, like Fromm and Blue Buffalo (and others I can't remember). I used The Honest Kitchen with a previous dog a couple years ago, and it was good, but I knew it didn't help at all with tartar build up, which was also another concern. I switched them pretty fast from one kibble to another. Pretty much once I used up the small 5 lb bag I tried another formula, so I didn't notice if the chicken formula gave him any issues.

 

I'll be taking chicken out of his diet and see if the itching stops. I hope it does!

[Iorveth]

Now I realize it might be a chicken allergy (I'm embarrassed it took me this long to realize it!)

 

Don't feel bad. See, I had my youngest pup on chicken for WEEKS thinking it was just a difficult transition. It took weeks of feeding just chicken to finally think, "Hmmm, this clearly isn't working. Perhaps I should try something else". I didn't have the excuse of multiple proteins! I was only feeding chicken at that point! Switched him to turkey and the runs went away within a couple of days. He can handle bits of chicken here and there, so maybe he could handle a whole meal of it now, but he's 2.5 years old and we just haven't bothered to give him a chicken meal since he was a puppy.