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Raw Diet For Golden Pup

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34 replies to this topic

#1
AnthonyE

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Hi there,

 

Just discovered this forum and have found a lot of interesting information with regards to beginning a puppy on a raw diet.  We have an 11 month old golden retriever.  Our pup 'Tyson' is currently on a kibble diet (Taste of the Wilderness) but would like to make the switch after reading all of the positive information about dogs raised on a raw diet. 

 

From what I've read so far it seems like it is best to stick with one protein source for a week (e.g., chicken or turkey necks and/or backs) and then introduce a second after a week has passed.  Should I just be giving him 2% of his body weight?  Should I be giving him chicken quarters at this age?  Can he eat it all - bone and meat?  What about the thin long bone in chicken quarters - is this not a choking hazard?   Will he be alright eating the necks or backs, bone and all?  Do they provide enough meat?  Do I need to ensure at this age the recommended 80% muscle meat, 10% bone and 10% organs (liver or kidney)? 

 

What about veggies and/or fruit?  Is it okay to put them through the food processor?  How much does a puppy need?  Do I just mix it all in with the meat?

 

Do I also need to provide anything extra like flaxseed, fish oil etc.?

 

Anyways, I can really use advice from an experience raw diet dog owner and would be most grateful.

 

Thanks,

Anthony

 

 


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#2
TRDmom

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Welcome to the forum and congrats on making the decision to go raw! :) It can be a little stressful (mainly for the owner) in the beginning, but don't over think this, you'll do fine. Fruits and vegetables are not a necessary part of a dog's diet. My dog will get an occasional carrot, but as a treat. I suggest starting out with chicken quarters. Feed each protein for about two weeks starting out. Some dogs transition from kibble to raw easily, others can get upset stomachs so its best to go slow.

 

You've probably read the 'getting started' page, but its a good reference. http://preymodelraw....el-raw-diet-r19

 

I personally did not follow the feeding suggestions (my dog has eaten raw meat since he was a little pup, it just wasn't exclusive), but do recommend it for those starting out because it seems to help them a lot. I don't feed pork because of personal reasons, neither do I feed fish (due to cost/availability). Meats I feed include chicken, turkey, duck, lamb, and beef. We will soon be adding rabbit... and my dog has been known to catch his own possum. :P Chicken and rabbit are probably going to be the two major meats we feed. Don't feel you have to follow the same schedule of meats every two weeks; once your dog gets used to raw feeding, you can be more flexible. 

 

Since your dog is already 11 months, I would feed 2% of his current weight (assuming he's a healthy weight now). He should do fine with the chicken quarters. I wouldn't worry about the bone, most dogs know what to do with them. Good luck!


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#3
naturalfeddogs

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Welcome! You can start with chicken backs, or quarters, bone included. Not only does the bone provide needed nutrients, but it also firms the poops. Stay with chicken for about two weeks, and if all is good then move on to turkey and do the same thing. Pork will be next, then beef etc.... Organs won't come in until very last. At least two or three months. 

 

Fish oil will be about the only supplement you will need.


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#4
Jordann

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If you worry about your boy being a gulper, avoid chicken wings and necks. If you aren't able to find backs to start out, you can start with leg quarters.

2% is a good starting point. It depends on his activity level, metabolism, and environment. My dogs are outside and at home are pretty lazy, but at our property they are very active. At home they get 1-1.5 pounds and at the property they get an extra pound if they have been exceptionally active or it is cold. I don't measure things out, I go off of their body condition. For most dogs the quarters are not a choking hazard, but as we say around here, know thy dog. Just be prepared, dogs don't chew like we do. They will crunch the bone a few times, just to get the piece small enough to get down the hatch. My good chewer chomped a chicken neck once and then swallowed it. :) You won't be feeding organs for 2-3 months because they are super rich. It is best to go slow in the beginning. Don't stress about the 80:10:10 ratio. You will go off of his poops. If he is straining or the poop is coming out crumbly, he needs more muscle meat. If he has soft poops or diarrhea, more bone is needed. :)

We do not add fruits or veggies in as part of meals. Some dogs get them as treats, but they are not necessary. Dogs are not able to break down the vegetable or fruit cells to get the nutrients, so if you do go a BARF route, you need to blend the veggies up.

You will eventually need to add in fish oil if you do not feed oily fish or grass fed red meats (pork, beef, elk, venison, etc).

You want to make sure to feed a rotation of at least 4 proteins and different cuts to get the most of the diet. :)

Keep your questions coming and keep us posted on your progress!
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#5
Prey Model Raw

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Glad to see you post!

You've gotten great advice so far.

The only time we give veggies is if we have something leftover from our own human meals and it's something they'll eat. For example, we make a rotating batch of bone broth for ourselves for the health benefits of it. After about 5 days we have to toss the bones and veggies and green we put in there to cook. Instead of throwing them away we purée them in the vitamix and serve that with a raw egg or two some coconut oil or salmon oil.

I don't give these veggies because they're needed to complete the diet, we do it as a treat and because they love it. Plus it's better than throwing it all in the garbage.

Read the getting started guide and then come back with any questions you have
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#6
AnthonyE

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Thanks for all the great advice and all the suggestions.  I just noticed a mistake in my original email stating that he is 11 months when in fact he is just 11 weeks old - mainly due to the sleep deprivation I've been experiencing lately.  Having said this, should he be getting 4% of his body weight?  Anyways, I have begun stocking up on chicken and turkey necks and backs and looking forward to beginning the transition soon!



#7
Prey Model Raw

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At 11 weeks he should be getting close to 10% of his current weight. Unless he's over about 15 pounds. Then you just stick to 2% of his ideal, projected adult weifht. Most Goldens should be right around 70 pounds so that's whete I got my numbers from.

How much does he weigh?

#8
AnthonyE

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He's a little over 20lbs and has been eating Taste of the Wilderness.  Sorry if it seems like I keep asking the same question, so does that mean he should get about 1.5lbs of meat each day (given that his ideal adult weight is going to be about 75lbs)?  Also, do I just start him out on chicken/turkey backs and necks - is this fine?  Should I crush them even further with a meat clever/hammer?  Is there enough muscle meat and bone on these types of cuts? From what I understand it is better to leave them a little bigger so he learns how to chew - is this correct?  When I transition to chicken quarters can I leave the skin on?  Do I need to worry about the long and thin bones? 

 

If I do incorporate some fruits and/or veggies that have been put through the food processor, how much should I give him?  Would it be inaddition to the raw diet's 1.5lbs or part of it?  Should I include an egg a week?  Do I need to worry about anything else such as flaxseed or fish oil?

 

Thanks again for all your help.  Just worried a little since I've never done this before with my previous Golden but am looking forward to the change.  Just want to make sure he will be okay. 



#9
TRDmom

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Your pup should be OK getting chicken quarters (which consist of chicken thigh and leg). You can probably find a 10 pound bag for under $10 (in my area they range from $7 - $10 depending on the store). I would certainly watch him just to make sure things go OK. Some people do remove the skin starting out, but I personally haven't. 

 

Since you're starting, here's my advice. Give one chicken quarter to your dog per day for two weeks. Puppies need to eat more frequently than adults, so you may want to offer it in three different meals. He should be able to handle the bone and the nutrients he needs are already there in the food.

 

At this point, no oils or supplements. Just offer the raw chicken.

 

As for fruits and vegetables -- don't worry about offering them. They are not a part of the Prey Model raw diet. BARF is a popular raw diet in the US, but it is fed very differently from the Prey Model. I wouldn't mix and match. Stick with one (the prey model is A LOT easier IMO).

 

Getting started reference: http://preymodelraw....el-raw-diet-r19

 

Benefits of raw: http://rawfeddogs.org/benefits.html

 

Differences of Prey Model and BARF diets: http://rawfed.com/myths/preymodel.html



#10
AnthonyE

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Thanks so much for all your advice, I really appreciate it.  We are going to start this week! 


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#11
naturalfeddogs

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Let us know how it goes!



#12
Prey Model Raw

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Please keep us updated!

#13
Jordann

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Yes, let us know how Tyson does! :)

#14
AnthonyE

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Hi again,

So, we took Tyson to the vet for his 2nd shots and were warned about the dangers of raw diet (namely obstructions caused by bones in the digestive tract).  This has made us nervous since we don't want our pup to encounter any of these problems.  Despite the worries I am still doing my research and trying to learn as much as I can with regards to the raw diet.

 

A few questions I still have: How do I know how much meat he is getting if I give him chicken quarters?  How much is bone and how much is meat?  Do I need to be worried about the meat to bone rather at 3 months? 



#15
AnthonyE

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I bought packages of chicken and turkey necks.  Is it safe to give him these as well at 3 months?  Do I need to crush the bones more?  Can I give him both chicken quarters and chicken necks and/or turkey necks?  Should I remove any bones from the chicken quarters that might be dangerous - the long thin ones that are pointy?



#16
jagger

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I'm still trying to find a vet that is raw friendly. Vets that aren't raw friendly tend to talk about and stress the dangers of raw diet - everything from choking hazards to salmonella poisoning. They are valid concerns but when it comes with "here is some science diet for you to try", I cringe.

 

Chicken backs should be fine for starting off with, watch your dog when he eats, make sure they chew properly. If they are gulping or swallowing large pieces, then there could be an issue. Chewing is good, but you can grind it.

 

You've gotten great advice in this thread so far, there's alot of combined knowledge here. It's understandable that you're nervous. We've only been feeding our miniature pinscher raw for just over a month and the changes in the dog are so worth it. I wouldn't hesitate to feed another dog raw.



#17
Prey Model Raw

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Heres a guide to how much bone the most common cuts you feed:

http://preymodelraw....meaty-bones-r15

For puppies they switch fast. So I recommend feeding a bone in meal alternating with a boneless meal. Or feeding a bone in piece with a boneless piece.

Many vets don't understand the benefits to raw, and only know of the "horror stories" which half the time could have been avoided altogether by proper feeding techniques OR weren't even a raw caused problem, rhey just tend to blame the diet when something goes wrong. Try not to let them scare you off of it. And if they do, ask them if they know what raw feeding is all about and how it's done and al the benefits. If they can't answer those things they don't have any business knocking it.
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#18
naturalfeddogs

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Just be sure when you feed bones, feed them in cuts of meat that are large enough that he has to chew before swallowing. Gulping pieces without chewing could sometimes cause issues. If they chomp on them once or twice before swallowing, you should be fine. Bone will digest.



#19
AnthonyE

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Thank you for all the great advice.  We plan to begin on Wednesday.  If he now weighs 29lbs how many chicken quarters do I give him?  Should we still feed him 3x a day?  How much at each feeding?  If 2% of his ideal weight is approx. 2 lbs  (2% of 75lbs is 1.5) does that mean I should give him about 1lb twice a day?  Is that enough for a pup 3 months old?  Can I give him chicken backs and necks as well? Do I need to crush the bones further?   Do you recommend thawing the chicken fully before feeding him or giving it to him partially frozen?  Thanks again for all your help ... we're excited to see how he does.  We've been stocking up on chicken quarters, necks and backs! 



#20
TRDmom

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I usually thaw my dog's meat in the fridge before giving it to him, but many people offer it frozen.

 

The 1.5 lbs should be split up into two or three meals. For example, a chicken quarter split in half will offer two meals at about the correct weight for the day.

 

I have never ground up meat or broken down bones for my dogs. Not sure what to tell you there. In my opinion, I think he'd be able to handle them, but its your dog and your call on that.

 

I want to applaud you for looking into raw feeding and giving it a try!

 

As for vets, I have not had very good experiences and tried multiple offices before ending up at our current one. I appreciate a vet's education, but there is also plenty they don't know. Having a rare breed, the vets and staff at some offices expect him to act a certain way even though I offer them some information on what to expect---I got pissed (to put it mildly) by the way he and I were treated at a visit and simply moved on to another practice after that. Since I had three dogs at the time, they felt it! (losing money). Every time I switched practices (which I wish I didn't have to do, but we weren't getting the care or respect we deserved), you could tell the vet wasn't happy about all that money walking out the door with me. You wouldn't believe the arrogance and incompetence I have expereinced at different offices.

 

I am not trying to bash vets, like I said, I appreciate their education when it comes to things like heart diesease, wounds, UTIs, spay/neuter etc. As for behavior, training and diet--they're not in most vet's area of expertise. Like jagger said, many vets want to offer you the food they sell (and get a commission for).






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