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Starting On Raw
Posted 10 February 2015 - 12:11 PM
- Deroypini and Ronaldceaw like this
Posted 10 February 2015 - 01:24 PM
The "getting started" page is a good reference. It is suggested to start feeding chicken since it tends to be easier on tummies new to raw feeding. After a couple of weeks (provided your dogs are adjusting well. No diarrhea), switch to another protein. Poultry are the 'starter' meats since they are less rich than say, beef and lamb. Organ meats, such as liver and kidney, are usually held off until after your dogs have cycled through various meats (about two weeks with each one) since they are rich and can cause stomach upset. Since you have Frenchies, I would go slowly with them (start with chicken for a couple of weeks, move on to turkey... save liver for later!).
As for what meats you offer, that is up to you, though you should try to have 3-4 different ones. For example, I will never offer pork (for personal reasons) and my dog doesn't have much interest in fish. I do however feed chicken, beef, duck, lamb, turkey, rabbit and deer. Even though there are some meats I don't offer, there are plenty of others to choose from.
Posted 11 February 2015 - 04:56 AM
He loves the raw chicken
Posted 11 February 2015 - 08:06 AM
Everything you bought is great for raw feeding. Some, however, will wait until later in their diet. Like TRDMom, there are some meats I will never feed like wold boar or bear (parasites) but just about everything else is fair game. I do feed domestic pork, though.
We feed chicken, turkey, duck, game hen, wild fowl, pork, beef, bison, deer, elk, emu, guinea pig, rabbit, sardines, goat, lamb/mutton, and probably a few others I'm forgetting. Not all of this is on a regular basis but these things are all meats we will feed when we can get it. Pork and beef are our main red meats and all of the poultry is included since most of it is easy to get for us. Mostly red meat is ideal once your dog is further along in the diet.
Posted 11 February 2015 - 09:32 AM
I also wanted to ask the sardines I bought are not clean an come whole isit ok to give him them as they are or will I need to clean them an remove the heads?
Thank you for your help
Posted 11 February 2015 - 10:46 AM
Posted 12 February 2015 - 04:53 AM
Welcome! Make sure you just stick with bone in chicken for about the first two weeks. After that you will move on to turkey.
How much did you feed him? Over feeding can cause throwing up, so maybe for a couple of days back off some. So can eating to fast.You may also want to remove the skin/fat for the first couple of days as well. If he re ate the food, I wouldn't worry about it. Sometimes mine still, after about six years of raw will eat too fast and regurgitate it back up. When they do I just let them re eat it.
It will take more than two days to see a change, and know if he is really allergic or not. Usually, dogs who are allergic to a protein in cooked form are not allergic in raw form. The two are totally different. His body has been having to work crazy hard to digest kibble, and now adjusting to raw. These sort of things are normal in the beginning. It may take some time for his body to adjust to raw food, but he will.
Posted 12 February 2015 - 05:19 AM
I know it can be a bit scary while transitioning, depending on how your dog/s handle it. Any new food, including kibbles, can cause stomach upset. Frenchies, in my experience, tend to be a bit tummy sensitive. Some dogs get "the runs" over small changes, while others have iron stomachs that seem to handle anything! It is possible your dog has a food/meat allergy, but like naturalfeddogs said, its too early to make that assessment (unless you have the vet do an allergy test, which can still be inconclusive. I know of quite a few frustrated owners with dogs having skin issues and vets not being able to adequately diagnose or treat them!).
I suggest sticking with the two weeks per meat ("getting started" guidelines), then see what happens. You might find that he is doing OK, or certain meats he does well on (e.g. rabbit/beef/lamb). Time is the biggest factor in determining what's going to work. You're doing a good job!!
Posted 12 February 2015 - 09:58 AM
And I can see that you guys are feeding several different types of meat, as I am located in london England rabbit elk pheasant and other novel meats are very hard to locate are there any other alternatives or will beef lamb chicken fish and turkey do the job. Also what types of fish can I feed any? As I would like to feed fish his stools are fine I would say one firm nugget for the last two days which was a good sign. I hope my boy gets better. I was also going to ask if anyone could help me if they knew how to rid of tear staining both my dogs are suffering from them they do have excessive tearing but I was told it's very common in frenchies. Thank you so much for all your help guys appreciated.
Posted 12 February 2015 - 10:13 AM
Dogs can go through a detox stage, where they get itchy and flakey and shed like crazy. This is getting rid of the kibble nasties. It will subside, though!
As a general rule, you do not want to feed carnivores (bear, cougars, coyotes, etc) because the parasites they carry can be transferred to your dogs. Wild boar is also a no no to feed, but domestic pork is fine. Here my boys eat chicken, turkey, pork, beef, deer, elk and I'm hoping to add goat soon. One eats fish, but the other doesn't like it at all, which is fine by me. Chicken, turkey, fish, pork, and beef is a fine rotation.
The sardines are fine to feed whole, but that will be added after turkey. Some dogs really enjoy the heads.
It sounds like he was throwing up from eating too much, or because he's not used to having an empty belly (we call those hunger pukes). How often are you feeding him? Is it just happening at night?
Keep at it, you're doing great so far! We are here to answer any questions you may have!
Posted 12 February 2015 - 11:19 AM
Posted 12 February 2015 - 04:15 PM
... or will beef lamb chicken fish and turkey do the job. Also what types of fish can I feed any?
Those meats are enough of a rotation. I raise rabbits, otherwise I wouldn't be able to offer any. Other novel meats, like deer, are just that--a novelty. I can snag deer meat on occasion, but I never know when it will be. As for fish, some dogs will eat them, others won't. My boy won't eat fish, so I'm not sure what to recommend.
I was also going to ask if anyone could help me if they knew how to rid of tear staining both my dogs are suffering from them they do have excessive tearing but I was told it's very common in frenchies.
One of my dogs had some tearing (he was a big-eyed Japanese Chin). A good diet and occasional cleaning with a warm, wet towel helped keep his eyes clear. I think some people use a little Apple Cider Vinegar in the water to help.
Posted 12 February 2015 - 04:37 PM
The throwing up... Could it be hunger pukes? When a dog gets hungry, they can sometimes barf up just a little bit of bile. It's a yellowish color and looks really nasty but that's really all it is is hunger. Kibble stays in the body a lot longer than raw so dogs new to raw can get hungry faster in the beginning since their bodies are used to having that slowly digesting kibble in their bellies at all times. As they adjust to the raw diet, you'll see it less and less. Two of mine haven't done it in forever and one, I think, I have accidentally gotten him too used to a set feeding schedule so his body starts demanding food if I don't feed him on time. A little variation in feeding times will get rid of that.
If he's actually throwing up food, it can be because he's being overfed or that he's just taking more time to get used to it. I always advise to keep an eye on your dog when barfing or the trots are involved since those can be symptoms of other things and I would never want to be responsible for someone not seeking vet attention if it was something worse but, the reality is that dogs regurgitate food for all kinds of reasons. It didn't go down right the first time, it's not sitting right with them, or whatever other reason they may do it. If they go right back to eating it, I generally don't worry since I know that my boys won't re-eat something if they truly aren't feeling good.
To slow him down, you could consider feeding him frozen meals. My boys generally get everything frozen since one thinks he's a python that should swallow without chewing and it just makes all of them work harder to get that food which helps mentally wear them out as well as strengthen muscles. Once he's further in and can get more meat than a newly started dog, feeding pieces that are larger than what he should be getting in one meal can slow him down too. He's a little guy so, for example, you could weigh a whole chicken or turkey, give it to him to gnaw on for a while, and periodically weigh it and put it away for another day once he has eaten his "daily allowance" of food from it. We used to do that with our youngest when he was a pup with whole turkey carcasses stripped of the breasts since he wasn't to the point where boneless turkey was doable for him.
Posted 12 February 2015 - 11:35 PM
Yeah I think he is getting hungry he's lost weight I can see his ribs he did the same last night barfing up bile it's really loud. Do I feed more?
I need to buy some scales so I can weigh the meat he's 13kg dog so he's my lil guy but I know he's lost weight I can see it.
Thank you for your feedback so glad talkin to real people with good knowledge about dogs.
Posted 13 February 2015 - 05:34 AM
Offering large pieces that the dog can't swallow whole usually helps to teach them to chew. When my guy was a puppy, I gave whole steak--there was NO WAY he could swallow that in his little puppy mouth (it was almost as big as him)! Now as an adult, he's pretty good about chewing. My boxer thought everything was meant to be swallowed, but the poor thing was also missing most of her molars.
For pictures of a dog in transition to raw, take a look at the following link. His body condition changes a bit (bony during 'detox,' then filling out again). http://preymodelraw....ry-through-raw/
Posted 13 February 2015 - 01:48 PM
I also meant to address the mouth wiping and foot licking. If it's just for a while after a meal, it could just be him trying to clean himself. Many raw fed dogs will spend time cleaning their legs and feet after a meal depending on how they ate it. If it was a labor intensive raw meaty bone that look lots of holding and gnawing, they can spend even up to a couple of hours cleaning their legs and feet since those tend to be messy. My old man Collie ends up with legs red from the meat halfway up to his elbows so he can be found still periodically cleaning even hours after one of those bones that makes him work hard. If the dog just held a meal down with his feet, there is usually cleaning afterwards. My dogs will even clean the bottoms of their feet after meals that only got the pads "dirty" from standing in the eating spot where the meat was even though they didn't have to hold it with a foot.
The face wiping can be a couple of things. I have noticed a trend among floppy lipped dogs (my Bluetick Coonhound, your Frenchie, another member's Boxer, another friend's Dane and yet another friend's Mastiff). My Bluetick has the floppy lips and he wipes his face on things after a meal while my two "clean mouthed" dogs, the Collie and the Xolo, do not. I sometimes wonder if it's because they have that extra lip the other dogs do not have so they get a little messier around their mouths and are just attempting to clean it like they do their feet.
Another thought is that there could be something stuck in his teeth. It happens on occasion but it is usually, in my experience, accompanied by pawing at the mouth. I have found that just keeping on them after a meal to make sure they don't wipe their mouths on something they shouldn't be (Buck tries to use the carpet... yuck) as well as wiping their mouths with a paper towel after each meal can really help.
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