Jump to content

Welcome to Prey Model Raw
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.
Login to Account Create an Account
Photo

New To Raw, Confused More Than Anything Please Help!


  • Please log in to reply
47 replies to this topic

#1
Maj

Maj

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts
Hi everyone,

Im new to this forum, my names Maj and i am from the UK thought I would join up as I literally have no one to ask for advice when it comes to raw feeding.

I cant seem to take the plunge and start feeding my dog a raw diet as it seems a little scary and confusing.

I have a 12 month old Japanese akita and she has had problems with her anal glands so i thought i would change her kibble to raw feeding. (She is currently on Orijen kibble)

She weighs 34kg so 2% of her weight should be consuming 680g total in a day. How do I determine bone content if it i covered in meat? It says to feed 10% but how do i weight or measure when it is covered in meat?

Now i only have access to chicken, fish, lamb and beef. I wont be able to get hold of anything else and wont touch pork due to personal reasons. Is this enough sources of meat?

Also when starting off it says to start off with something bland like chicken. I purchased a whole chicken without the guts which weighs around 800g and I reading up it says to give a whole chicken on few guides on the internet....will this not cause loose stools due to over feeding?

Im sorry for all the questions.

I look forward to the responses.

Thanks everyone

Maj

#2
naturalfeddogs

naturalfeddogs

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 2,299 posts
  • LocationTalladega, Alabama

Welcome Maj! Don't stress yourself over percentages. They are just guidelines, each dog is different and may need more or less of something. You will know that once you get going. 

 

It sounds like you will have a decent variety of proteins. The more you come across to add in the better as well. Bone in chicken is all you will start with for the first two weeks anyway. Once poops and everything is going good for you, you will move on to the next protein which is usually turkey. If you can find that, that would be great. If not you can go on to the fish.

 

Raw is fed starting with the blandest, easiest to digest protein which is chicken, then you move on to each one getting to the richer ones as you go along.  Red meats like lamb and beef are super rich due to all the nutrients and being fatty. Those usually don't come in for around 6-8 weeks, so intro them very slowly. Too much too fast can cause digestive upset. 

 

You will also need to feed organs, like beef liver also, but those are sooo rich they don't come in until very last. Like, 3-4 months. 


  • Pompom mama likes this

#3
TRDmom

TRDmom

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 470 posts

Welcome!

 

The meats you listed (chicken, fish, lamb and beef) are enough variety. Try to use at least three different ones for nutrition. Whether your dog is getting a good balance of meat and bone will be most obvious from her feces. She should be able to poop regularly (once a day or every other day); she shouldn't be constipated or have diarrhea. The stool will be less moist and smaller that when she was fed kibble. Chicken quarters (thigh and leg) have a decent balance of meat and bone. Don't get too concerned over her daily meals; consider what she is getting over the course of a week. For example, my dog might get a meal or two (he's fed once a day) that has little to no bone, but then get a meal with more bone (e.g. drumsticks).

 

Start with just chicken for a couple of weeks, if she does fine, try (only) fish for a couple of weeks. Some dogs will eat fish, others don't. My dog doesn't care for fish (I offered him whole fish. Some have better luck with canned fish, or only certain parts of it). Then choose lamb or beef and feed that for a couple of weeks, then move on to the next protein. Don't be surprised if she gets an upset stomach from the red meat. She may do fine, but if she doesn't at first, she will get used to it, it'll just take a little more time. In my personal experience, my dog has done fine on everything I have fed him.

 

In Turkey, dog kibble is very expensive and more of a new concept. Most dogs are fed raw meat (usually scraps after butchering) and table scraps. The large shepherds dogs are usually raised on a mash (not meat based). From seeing dogs in Turkey and the US, the Turkish dogs tend to look healthier. "Old country" and developed nations have different ways of looking at things. I am certainly going to take care of any animals I own, but I have more of the "old country" perspective. I guess my point is, don't get too concerned about getting everything "right." You understand there should be some meat diversity; a mix of meat and bone; and you genuinely care about your dog. I think that is a good recipe for success. :)



#4
TRDmom

TRDmom

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 470 posts

Also, I feed a portion based on weight (or close to it). My dog gets about 0.45kg each day. Some people offer large portions and put away the uneaten amount for later, but I don't do that. Today, I had a chunk of deer that I cut into three pieces (each roughly the size he needs for a meal) and gave him one piece. For me, that's easier.



#5
Maj

Maj

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts

Thanks for all the replies. 

 

I decided to change her on to raw today she fasted for around 15 hours then gave her half a chicken which she seemed to really enjoy. 

 

Will be feeding her twice a day so the rest of the half she will get tonight.

 

I get a feeling that the small portions she is eating now will that not make her more hungry through out the day? or does raw food digest slowly. 

 

her stool after that meal was solid but I assume that was from the kibble she ate yesterday. 

 

Also when introducing new meats do i cancel out the chicken or do i reduce the chicken and add the new protein in?

 

Feeding her a whole chicken for 2 weeks only won't do her any harm will it? like malnutrition? sorry if this question was bit stupid lol. 

 

Also one more silly question.... Is lamb chops, lamb leg and beef ribs a good edible bone? or is this classified as Reck bones? 

 

By the way all of your dogs look absolutely stunning!! 

 

Thanks again everyone 



#6
Spy Car

Spy Car

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 378 posts

Hi Maj,

 

Here are some bone percentages for skin-on Chicken (a common source of edible bone):

 

Whole (with giblets and neck) 31% 
Back, 44% 
Breast (with ribs) 20% 
Drumstick 33% 
Thigh 21% 
Leg Quarters 27% 
Neck 36% 
Wing 46% 

 

I think it is good to have a rough idea of the bone percentages in meals, also know that through experience (and watching the consistency of the waste) you will develop a sense of meat/bone (and organ) ratios that work for your dog. Just as the amount you feed should be driven by condition (as opposed to a fixed percentage of body weight) the amount of bone can be judged off the dog's stools. Weighing out portions and calculating percentages is over-kill IMO, as long as you are mindful of general guidelines and everything is coming out fine.

 

My experience with raw feeding is limited to one dog (started at 8 weeks, now 10 months) so take it with a grain of salt, but I chose to slowly introduce liver and other organs pretty early. Given they supply vital nutrients and (at least in our case) the dog, unlike many, has no food aversions to organs (and in fact gobbles them down greedily) I'd follow the same route again (as opposed to waiting 3-4 months). If we experienced "cannon-butt" perhaps I'd have another opinion, but such was not the case. This is something you'll have to sort for yourself. 

 

In any case, I feel raw-feeding is the best thing I could have done for my dog. He is in positively gleaming heath.

 

Best wishes. 

 

Bill

 

 



#7
TRDmom

TRDmom

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 470 posts

It is recommended to stop feeding the current protein (in this case, chicken) when you move on to the next. This is just for the transition period though. One reason why people do this is to help eliminate guessing if your dog experiences problems (e.g. diarrhea or allergies). I did not do this, but I think its helpful if you're nervous about getting started and/or there do happen to be issues.

 

I used to feed my dogs twice a day, but now I only feed once. It took my boy a few days to get used to this change. He would act like he was still hungry, but doesn't do that anymore (unless we're cooking and he's convinced he should sample it first--which isn't allowed, but he asks anyway). How many times you feed per day is up to you. I do once because its easier for me.

 

As for eating only one meat source at a time, don't worry about malnutrition. The vitamins and minerals they need are there (especially when feeding the whole animal and not just a certain part). :)



#8
naturalfeddogs

naturalfeddogs

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 2,299 posts
  • LocationTalladega, Alabama

Thanks for all the replies. 

 

I decided to change her on to raw today she fasted for around 15 hours then gave her half a chicken which she seemed to really enjoy. 

 

Will be feeding her twice a day so the rest of the half she will get tonight.

 

I get a feeling that the small portions she is eating now will that not make her more hungry through out the day? or does raw food digest slowly. 

 

her stool after that meal was solid but I assume that was from the kibble she ate yesterday. 

 

Also when introducing new meats do i cancel out the chicken or do i reduce the chicken and add the new protein in?

 

Feeding her a whole chicken for 2 weeks only won't do her any harm will it? like malnutrition? sorry if this question was bit stupid lol. 

 

Also one more silly question.... Is lamb chops, lamb leg and beef ribs a good edible bone? or is this classified as Reck bones? 

 

By the way all of your dogs look absolutely stunning!! 

 

Thanks again everyone 

Half of a chicken is a lot, so I think she will be fine as far as not being hungry. Too much can cause runny poops and sometimes vomiting. Raw digests very fast compared to kibble, but as long as you fasted her the poops you saw were probably raw food poops. 

 

Usually, when you introduce a new protein, you feed only that protein each time. You don't want to mix proteins during the transition. That way, if there is a problem with that particular protein you know what it is. 

 

Feeding one protein only for those two weeks won't cause any malnutrition. You would have to feed one protein for a long time, like a good month or more before you start having nutrition issues. You won't stay on one protein that long at all.

 

Beef bones are the ones that are so dense some people do give them as "rec" bones, but they aren't a good idea. Those are so dense they are bad about cracking and breaking teeth. Pretty much any weight bearing bones from large animals are a no no. As far as lamb leg bones go, mine have gotten through them before so yours may be able to as well. Just try and see first, when you get to that protein.

 

And BTW, no questions are stupid. The reason you ask is because you don't know. How else are you going to find out? :)



#9
Maj

Maj

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts

I was told by the butcher that you can give your dog beef ribs as they can easily eat through that but dont know if there is any truth in that lol. 

 

Her stools looked fine today nice and solid for once.. been having issues with her anal glands since the age of 7 months and she had them flushed recently, the vets did say to try her on raw. So far so good. 

 

 

If her stools are fine for a week can i introduce another protein? or should i wait the two weeks? 

 

Also what do you do for treats? I used to boil chicken breast now and again and use them as treats is this still acceptable? or is feeding anything cooked pretty much a no go? 

 

I know my dog likes to eat roast lamb when we make some again is this something that is not allowed? 

 

I have not been giving her any treats since 2 days ago as I was worried it may confuse her stomach lol 

 

Been looking at fish as well to see if I can buy any now for cheap what would you guys recommend?  I know that she loves fish its her weakness but not sure how she will go about it being raw. 

 

When I move her on to fish for example if I chose to feed her canned sardines or anything else would I have to feed the full amount of her daily allowance? she should be eating 680g. 

 

Once she has fully been eating all different types of protein is it okay to mix them up like abit of fish, beef, lamb and chicken together in one meal? or are there meats you cant mix lol.

 

Thanks again



#10
Maj

Maj

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts

Kita just puked up after 6 hours of her first feed she ate a little of it back up before I could clean it. 

 

Is this normal? The vomit was very small chunks of chicken and a little bone most of seemed she had digested so im not sure why she did this. 

 

I was playing with her outside and she was running around like mad so dont know if that was the cause although like i mentioned it was after 6 hours from when she ate. 

 

Do i continue to feed her the raw chicken or am I supposed to put her back on kibble or not feed her? 

 

Please help. 

 

Thanks



#11
naturalfeddogs

naturalfeddogs

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 2,299 posts
  • LocationTalladega, Alabama

I was told by the butcher that you can give your dog beef ribs as they can easily eat through that but dont know if there is any truth in that lol. 

 

Her stools looked fine today nice and solid for once.. been having issues with her anal glands since the age of 7 months and she had them flushed recently, the vets did say to try her on raw. So far so good. 

 

 

If her stools are fine for a week can i introduce another protein? or should i wait the two weeks? 

 

Also what do you do for treats? I used to boil chicken breast now and again and use them as treats is this still acceptable? or is feeding anything cooked pretty much a no go? 

 

I know my dog likes to eat roast lamb when we make some again is this something that is not allowed? 

 

I have not been giving her any treats since 2 days ago as I was worried it may confuse her stomach lol 

 

Been looking at fish as well to see if I can buy any now for cheap what would you guys recommend?  I know that she loves fish its her weakness but not sure how she will go about it being raw. 

 

When I move her on to fish for example if I chose to feed her canned sardines or anything else would I have to feed the full amount of her daily allowance? she should be eating 680g. 

 

Once she has fully been eating all different types of protein is it okay to mix them up like abit of fish, beef, lamb and chicken together in one meal? or are there meats you cant mix lol.

 

Thanks again

No, most dogs can't get through beef bones, including ribs. Beef bones in general are super dense, and potentialy will break teeth. Pork ribs, lamb ribs or deer ribs are different. Most can get through them.

 

During the transition, treats usually aren't given. Once the transition process is done, treats that are raw like chicken feet, or pig ears are good ones. Some people give things like "pizzles" (bull penis) and those work well too. Cooked treats could possibly cause digestive issues considering the dog is on a whole raw diet. 

 

If all is good after a week, sure try a new protein. But you experience problems just go back to the last protein you were just on for at least another week.

 

Fish is fine to feed, but not a must for a raw diet. If you do feed fish, you want to feed an oily type like salmon or trout. The oil is where the benefits come from for the omegas. Just be sure if it is wild caught from the pacific northwest you freeze it first. Those can carry salmon poisoning which is fatal to dogs. Freeze for a couple of weeks first. I personally prefer to give salmon oil in place of salmon for that reason. Also, watch for the salt content in canned fish. It's usually pretty high, and would be considered cooked.

 

Once you are through the transition of all the proteins, yes, you cam mix them then. I do it all the time. 



#12
naturalfeddogs

naturalfeddogs

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 2,299 posts
  • LocationTalladega, Alabama

Kita just puked up after 6 hours of her first feed she ate a little of it back up before I could clean it. 

 

Is this normal? The vomit was very small chunks of chicken and a little bone most of seemed she had digested so im not sure why she did this. 

 

I was playing with her outside and she was running around like mad so dont know if that was the cause although like i mentioned it was after 6 hours from when she ate. 

 

Do i continue to feed her the raw chicken or am I supposed to put her back on kibble or not feed her? 

 

Please help. 

 

Thanks

Vomiting can be normal in the beginning, since their body is still adjusting to raw. Including seeing the pieces of bone. 

 

Eating too fast can also cause it. Mine will still do that sometimes if they eat too fast or too much. I just leave it be, and they will eat it again. Being that is was six hours after eating, it also could have been hunger pukes. Raw digests faster than kibble, so there won't be anything just hanging around in the stomach. You can try giving smaller amounts in between meals if you want, to help keep something in the stomach until they adjust to the new way of feeding. Don't go back to kibble, or you will have some real digestive upset. Stay with bone in chicken for now. Her body has to adjust to the new way of feeding. 



#13
Maj

Maj

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts

Naturalfeddogs - thanks for your advice,  What do you use for training treats? I have a training session with her next week may have to cancel in that case.

 

I thought hunger pukes would just be bile? Can I throw like a drumstick extra in the afternoon because if I cut her 2 meals up any further shes going to be more hungry as the chickens are only small.. not getting a lot of support from home either as there saying she loves her boiled chicken and fruits etc etc now we cnt give it to her lol...This is becoming frustrating!



#14
naturalfeddogs

naturalfeddogs

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 2,299 posts
  • LocationTalladega, Alabama

You can use dehydrated pieces of chicken, or even just pieces of chicken breast cut into little cubes. I remember using both when I was teaching mine.

 

Huger pukes would be bile, but if there is even a little bit of bone there it's going to come up as well. You can try to add a drumstick with the afternoon feeding, but you don't want to feed too much at once because that can cause runny poops and some vomit as well. It would be better to feed a drumstick or two in between meals to help sooth the stomach, just in case it is hunger pukes. Doing like that will keep a little something in the tummy, so it's not sitting empty between meals. 

 

It does help to have support from home. Sometimes they have to see the results with their own eyes. I wouldn't give any boiled chicken, or fruits. That will likely just make it harder to make the transition. There is always that adjustment period, but it will pass and things will go just fine.



#15
Maj

Maj

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts

Sorry are you saying to not give boiled chicken during transition or completely not give it even once fully transitioned. 

 

I purchased air dried venison treats before i started on raw is this something you could give one transitioned? 



#16
naturalfeddogs

naturalfeddogs

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 2,299 posts
  • LocationTalladega, Alabama

Boiled is considered cooked, so I wouldn't give it even when transitioned. Cooked and raw generally don't mix, not to mention the cooking process removes a majority of the nutrition.

 

Air dried treats I would think are like dehydrated? You could try them, for training classes only and in small amounts. But it any digestive issues arise, you may need to stop them and give chicken treats instead for now. Venison is a really rich red meat. You really won't know until you try.



#17
TRDmom

TRDmom

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 470 posts

Here's my two cents...

 

I wouldn't be too concerned about the throw up. Do monitor her though; a dog constantly throwing up obviously isn't feeling well. Otherwise, does she have energy, clear eyes, look "normal"? I would continue feedings as usual.

 

My dogs used to eat raw and kibble (for years), never had issues. I know of many people who feed both and don't have issues. Personally--again, my personal experience. Anyone can chime in with their experiences--I haven't heard of a dog that experienced issues from eating kibble and raw. There are also people (veterinarians and owners) that recommend feeding cooked chicken as part of a homemade diet. I assume their dogs haven't died over eating cooked meat. To me, the biggest issue are cooked bones which can splinter (ouch!). Cooked meat as a treat shouldn't be a problem.

 

The more foods you offer at this time, the less you know what could be causing upset. Some people have dogs who can't handle poultry. If there is one meat bothering the dog and you're feeding multiple meats at one time, its harder to rule out the exact cause. Hence the tendency to play it safe and only offer one meat at a time. You know your dog, we're just online reading. Educate yourself (which I can see you're doing) and make your own calls. Best wishes!



#18
Maj

Maj

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts

she has just vomited again after about 2 hours from her last meal. beginning to worry me now but she seems fine in her self walking around trying to find food. now this time the vomit wasn't a lot although she went out for a little while her self and maybe puked up more and ate the rest....

 

She fine was on the first day of her raw and kept it all down. She may of puked when she was outside during the day whilst I was working so would not know for definite.

 

Her eyes look fine and as I said before shes acting normal too trying to scavenge for food around the kitchen..

 

I'm just worried now about the vomiting and really thinking of putting her back on kibble...I'm already breaking lol



#19
TRDmom

TRDmom

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 470 posts

To kibble or not to kibble is your choice. I have more fun with raw and it costs a lot less than the grain-free food I almost switched to (ended up switching to raw instead).

 

As long as she looks OK, I don't find the vomiting too alarming (assuming it subsides in a few days or so). You are taking her off what she's used to and giving a totally new food. I would encourage you to stick with raw, but its your choice. :)



#20
naturalfeddogs

naturalfeddogs

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 2,299 posts
  • LocationTalladega, Alabama

Is the chicken you are feeding enhanced at all? That could be a culprit. 

 

If she re eats it, that's fine. I always let mine re eat anything they vomit back up.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

We use this company for SEO