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Starting New Puppy On Raw


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#1
Erica

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So, I'll get around to posting pix of the puppy soon,but we're bringing home Maxi's little sister at the end of next month. She'll be 8 weeks and I feel like it should be no breeze, but a few questions so I know what to buy....

 

1) What's a good bone-in piece for young puppies at this age? Considering she's also a boxer and roughly 10-15 lbs at that age (I think), I've read chicken necks are a good start, but i won't be able to get a hand on any until about a week or two after we pick her up. wings/drumettes are also probably good but I feel like if I can't find ones that are a considerable size (not too big not too small, I also have to be cost-conscious..)

 

2) Do we still fast 24 hours since last kibble meal? I'm trying to get her started as soon as we get home, and since young pups need 3 meals a day...

 

3)Lastly, I've read puppies usually progress through the transition faster and to kinda piggyback off the first question, where would I go after chicken? obviously turkey/duck another bland-ish protein but with turkey being kinda big and me only being able to get duck necks/wings would it be safe to just feed duck necks for the 2nd protein (basically i  wont have any boneless for 2nd protein?? and then go on to pork once she's good on the first two does this sound good? im just concerned about puppy teeth/what she can get through after chicken)

 

Hopefully this makes sense :) like i said i'll post pix soon. i know im not on as much anymore; Max is well and thriving (idk what happened but my big baby now weighs 75 lbs lolll .__. )



#2
naturalfeddogs

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Congrats on the soon to be new addition! 

 

1) Chicken wings, drumettes and necks when you can get them are perfect, but if you can't get them,  cornish hens are fine as well. 

 

2) I haven't ever fasted puppies that young. Every puppy I have ever had I have offered the first raw meal after we get home, and they seem to not be too nervous. If they are too nervous and don't want to eat yet, I don't push the issue. I just offer it again a little later.

 

3) Puppies don't necessarily progress faster, but they do seem to get through it easier. Your next protein would be turkey. Try necks, and if they are too big still, you could give boneless turkey, and add bone in chicken with it for bone. Turkey necks are easy to get through, but sort of big, and other turkey bones are pretty dense. Try some turkey wings even, but if they are still too tough to get through, just add chicken bone to boneless turkey. 



#3
Erica

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Thanks for the answers as always Jenny! I'll probably be on and a bit more active when she's actually home :)


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#4
naturalfeddogs

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I can't wait until you get her!



#5
Erica

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So with 5 days to go!!!! :D :D :D
I think I have everything food wise ready for her to go. I won't be able to pick up the huge order until the 3rd of July, so in the meantime I'm going to feed her cut up chicken pieces like the wings, drummies, and whatever else on the bird is a good piece for her. Would stuff like bird gizzards and hearts be too much in the transition? I had ordered turkey hearts in lieu of big bone-in turkey pieces so when we move on to turkey I was gonna do bone-in chicken, then turkey hearts and alternate it like that.

 

I might have to do the same for pork and beef, i can't get my hands on anything other than hearts for all of the proteins besides chicken to keep costs down (but that's not for another month or so...)



#6
Erica

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Also, I have a TON of green tripe because someone moving out of the states had offered me all their raw food. Where would green tripe fit into the transition? Probably at the very end?



#7
naturalfeddogs

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I would hold off on the hearts for now, and just intro with the chicken and turkey. 

 

I haven't ever fed tripe, but maybe give it in small amounts to begin with, with something bone in. It's has good digestive enzymes, but too much can have the opposite affect from what I have heard.



#8
Iorveth

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Woohoo! New puppy! I must insist on pictures when you get her. Is she actually Max's sister or were you using that the same way I use it for my boys (who are two very different breeds and most definitely NOT brothers)?

I'll answer your previous questions just to give you info from another source. Also to show how, in my personal opinion, there really isn't ONE right way to intro raw. 

1) My two puppies were about Boxer size, I think. Buck turned out to be the same size as Max is now, but Iorveth was smaller and matured to a 60 lb dog that's physically the size of a 40 lb dog... I don't know. Roughly the same size! I liked chicken backs and chicken quarters. Forgive me if you've mentioned elsewhere if you can or can't find these, but the big red bag of quarters is a wonderful source of chicken. Gold Leaf or something. It's a red, 10 lb bag of chicken quarters that you can buy at a number of places like Walmart, Winco, etc. My guys were able to easily chomp through them and they were the right size to be able to hand them to the puppy whole. Backs are good for lots of bone. I find quarters have a good amount of bone to begin with. NFD, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we all decide elsewhere that they were about 30% bone or something?

2) I heard it recommended not to fast a puppy for the full 24 hours. It was a lot less. I don't remember exactly, but I do remember hearing not to fast a puppy for the full 24. I fed both of mine as soon as we got home because they came from the Carolinas (Buck from one, Iorveth from the other, complete coincidence). They had kibble in their crates on the plane and they did both eat, but there was no way to really judge WHEN they ate so we just gave them a good meal after they finished exploring their new digs. I let them wander as long as they want. Both my guys lasted about an hour before they were done exploring every corner and tormenting the older dog(s) and ready to do something besides play after so long in their crates. They both came to me as if to say, "This place is all right. What next?" and that's when I fed them.

3) Outside of Iorveth's hiccup with chicken (chicken gives him the runs) where we spent weeks on the one protein, both of my guys spent about a week on one protein before they were ready for the next. Probably could have moved on more quickly, but I did a full week for each one just to be sure we weren't rushing. If it's finding turkey parts she can eat, buying a whole carcass solved my problem. I removed the legs since that was the only bone they seemed to struggle with. I stripped the meat from those and collected it in a baggy along with a good portion of the breast (those we didn't cook up for ourselves, anyway!) for boneless meals down the road. At mealtime, I would just give the whole carcass to Iorveth and let him gnaw on it. I would have done the same for Buck if I'd thought of it. I don't remember what we did for Buck with turkey. I believe my thread in the pictures section titled "Iorveth" actually has pictures of him gnawing on a turkey carcass. I weighed it before I gave it to him and then took it away periodically to weigh it again. When I had decided he had eaten enough, I traded him a toy or something else so that I wasn't just taking his food from him. I stopped having to weigh things as I learned his body better and can eyeball his gut to tell when he's had enough food for one meal. 

These turkeys lasted him a couple of days at least, not to mention how much I was removing from it that either went towards our dinners or into the "boneless bag" for later. 

Cornish game hens is another way to go, like NFD said. We keep a small stockpile of those in the freezer. 

As far as moving on to proteins beyond that, a lot of people recommend pork ribs as a good way to introduce pork, but as puppies, even the larger breeds aren't able to really get through those. I like to keep using chicken/turkey/duck/whatever else I've fed that they can chomp easily enough for the bone in stuff and add pork until they can eat a fully boneless pork meal. Same with beef. Now, as adults, my two have zero issue crunching through pork ribs, but as puppies they would have been unable to do so.



As for the hearts, I haven't found the bird hearts to effect (affect? Heck, I never know) them any differently than the other meat, but pork/beef/deer/elk/etc do seem to take a little more of a careful introduction. But that's just, like, my opinion, man.


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#9
Erica

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I will post pix very soon :) The breeder isn't the best photographer, possibly the WORST lol so that's really why I haven't posted any xD And yes, she's totally unrelated to Max, and we are certainly not breeding them, so they will be brother and sister. Or life long companions. W/e relationship they decide but neither of them are getting any action *bleh* lol (Max never learned to hump, thank goodness I have been blessed with a saint of a pup hahahha)

 

Oh geez. I just hope she isnt swallowing all of the 40lbs of chicken necks I ordered ;__; I err'ed on the safe side for a good bone-in chciken because we didn't have Max when he was 8weeks old (more like 13-14 weeks, so considerable size difference) so I really don't know how big she's going to be when we pick her up lol. I like those chicken quarter bags, I used to get them for Max all the time. I think those and the whole chickens Winco sells would be safe bets for her then. I can still canx the order of chicken necks but they were a good deal at bulk for .67/lb...should I cancel or...?

 

And it's settled! I'll feed her as soon as she is willing :) I jsut wanted to make sure I wasn't torturing the poor thing nor setting her up for failure by feeding so soon.

 

It is finding turkey parts at a low price or whole turkeys that are not enhanced is the issue. (I did some digging through my chest freezer and found some leftover bone-in pieces Max wouldn't dare work on from last Thanksgiving haha)

 

-side note- I am still trying to work out how I'm going to budget feeding two dogs, one a new puppy with multiple meals and one a full grown eating machine, I stopped weighing a long time ago but I swear on a good day with plenty of exercise Max can devour 3 maybe 3.5 lbs and not make a difference to his body condition..in comparison to his usual "this looks like his typical 2 lbs" meals. these darned active dogs lmao.

 

back to turkey stuff- I've only ever seen whole turkeys un-enhanced Thanksgiving time. I'll probably end up buying turkey necks from my co-op when our current order of necks runs out. I will have to do some shopping around and see how she handles bones when it comes to pork. Max, being as finicky and dainty as he is, loves pork ribs (I cut them to like 3 rib pieces, if that makes sense, so he doesn't feel overwhelmed, he would probably be scared of a half or even quarter rack hahahah) but I have to agree. It did take him a bit to realize that i was giving him the good stuff lol

 

and lastly! That's what I was sorta asking about the turkey/chicken hearts. I noticed Maxi's poop will always be a bit firmer/lighter if he's fed mostly gizzards and/or hearts for a meal in comparison to beef/pork so I felt they wouldn't be too intense as opposed to beef/pork hearts (and yeah i never know the difference between effect/affect...I just don't use affect lmao)


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#10
Iorveth

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I will post pix very soon :) The breeder isn't the best photographer, possibly the WORST lol so that's really why I haven't posted any xD And yes, she's totally unrelated to Max, and we are certainly not breeding them, so they will be brother and sister. Or life long companions. W/e relationship they decide but neither of them are getting any action *bleh* lol (Max never learned to hump, thank goodness I have been blessed with a saint of a pup hahahha)

Oh, don't get me wrong! I wasn't asking because I thought you were going to breed them. I was asking because I have known people who have loved their breeder and their dog so much that they choose to go get a related dog that has the same lines. I have certain Xolo lines I like. I NEED to get Iorveth registered because I don't remember a single name from his pedigree. IF I am remembering right, he and BIS BISS GCh Bayshore's Georgio Armani (the dog that has repeatedly represented the breed at Westminster) come from similar lines. I do love those lines, but they are taller and leaner and have more of the sighthound look to them. My next Xolo will be a Caliente dog. Those dogs are very easy to identify. They are shorter and stockier and are more what I call the "Mexican Xolos" rather than the American ones. Kind of like the American vs the European Danes.  Iorveth's breeder showed my favorite sire, GCh Serranisimo Caliente, in the US and produced from litters from him, but I ended up with Iorveth instead. I like both types, to be honest. I love watching Iorveth run and he is just THE definition of balance and grace, but both types are very attractive to me. I'd LOVE one of each! 

 

Oh geez. I just hope she isnt swallowing all of the 40lbs of chicken necks I ordered ;__; I err'ed on the safe side for a good bone-in chciken because we didn't have Max when he was 8weeks old (more like 13-14 weeks, so considerable size difference) so I really don't know how big she's going to be when we pick her up lol. I like those chicken quarter bags, I used to get them for Max all the time. I think those and the whole chickens Winco sells would be safe bets for her then. I can still canx the order of chicken necks but they were a good deal at bulk for .67/lb...should I cancel or...?

Those should definitely work for her. It has been a long time since I have had chicken necks in this house, because there are much easier things for me to get my hands on. I don't actually remember what the concern is about chicken necks. I remember choking being mentioned because they are small enough that large dogs aren't concerned about crunching them, but then, my dogs swallow pieces ripped off of larger meals that are much larger than a chicken neck. There are dogs like Dude, though, who chew EVERYTHING they eat. I've seen quite a few large dogs who are careful eaters eat a bowl of chicken necks including Old Man Collie. A thought for chicken necks or feet or anything like that might be to freeze them in water for a kind of summer ice treat with a "prize" in the middle. Ha. Although mine do both like just plain ol' ice.

 

And it's settled! I'll feed her as soon as she is willing :) I jsut wanted to make sure I wasn't torturing the poor thing nor setting her up for failure by feeding so soon.

 

It is finding turkey parts at a low price or whole turkeys that are not enhanced is the issue. (I did some digging through my chest freezer and found some leftover bone-in pieces Max wouldn't dare work on from last Thanksgiving haha)

That CAN be a struggle, yes. They ARE out there though. I wish I could remember what turkeys we were feeding... We would check every store we went to see what they had for whole turkeys and did eventually find some that weren't enhanced and bought as many as would fit in the freezer. We should all start keeping lists of what meats we buy from what companies that aren't enhanced. If you decide to skip turkey for now or just do turkey parts when you can find them, remember to check back around the holidays. Turkeys are much more plentiful at that time of year and it's easier to find unenhanced birds. We wait until the holidays are over because they sell them for cheap to get rid of them.

 

-side note- I am still trying to work out how I'm going to budget feeding two dogs, one a new puppy with multiple meals and one a full grown eating machine, I stopped weighing a long time ago but I swear on a good day with plenty of exercise Max can devour 3 maybe 3.5 lbs and not make a difference to his body condition..in comparison to his usual "this looks like his typical 2 lbs" meals. these darned active dogs lmao.

Both of mine are that way. Iorveth should be getting around 1.5 lbs. On bone in days, he gets just over 3 lbs and on boneless days (if it's a red meat) he gets 2 lbs. Buck can pack away 4.5 lbs on any given day and once the food gut digests, he is just as lean and mean as he was before. I wish I had a metabolism like them. Local farmers are your friends as well as buying in bulk whenever you can. Hunters typically hate to waste meat, but they are also itching to get out hunting despite still having meat in the freezer. They are often happy to find someone who will put the old meat to good use so they can fill up their freezer with this year's kill. 

 

back to turkey stuff- I've only ever seen whole turkeys un-enhanced Thanksgiving time. I'll probably end up buying turkey necks from my co-op when our current order of necks runs out. I will have to do some shopping around and see how she handles bones when it comes to pork. Max, being as finicky and dainty as he is, loves pork ribs (I cut them to like 3 rib pieces, if that makes sense, so he doesn't feel overwhelmed, he would probably be scared of a half or even quarter rack hahahah) but I have to agree. It did take him a bit to realize that i was giving him the good stuff lol

Ah... I mentioned the holiday turkeys above... Should have read your whole post first. Ha! Ribs seem to stump a lot of dogs. Dude would occasionally pick all the meat off of them and leave the bones. Totally defeated the purpose of giving him a meal with heavy bone... For Buck,w e literally unwrap the whole rack of ribs (frozen solid) and hand it to him. He crunches through it like it's butter. That dog is a ton of fun to watch while he eats. Absolute powerhouse. Iorveth prefers poultry bones and I think it's because he just doesn't have many teeth. He has one good carnassial in each upper and lower jaw on each side (so 4 total) and you can see him maneuver things that need to be crunched to the back of his mouth where those big teeth are. The canines (he has all 4 canines) and those little front teeth just aren't useful for crunching big bones so all of that work goes to those back teeth. He CAN eat ribs, but he gets frustrated with them.

 

and lastly! That's what I was sorta asking about the turkey/chicken hearts. I noticed Maxi's poop will always be a bit firmer/lighter if he's fed mostly gizzards and/or hearts for a meal in comparison to beef/pork so I felt they wouldn't be too intense as opposed to beef/pork hearts (and yeah i never know the difference between effect/affect...I just don't use affect lmao)

 

I would imagine that, just like the regular meat of turkey and chicken being "milder" than beef and pork etc. the hearts would be too. I would still go slower with them, but I think they are "safer" than the hearts from red meat animals. 

 

Edit: I don't know why only some responses came up red, making it super difficult to tell who said what



#11
Erica

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IMG_3338_zpswemgtyf0.jpgIMG_3350_zpsvdfpg4ay.jpg

 

sorry these are huge ^^ intros went great! however, max's excitement only lasted that long. when he realized we brought her in through the front door he quickly gave us the "WTF" look hahaha -_____- he'll warm up to her eventually because she already loves him. she makes soooo many attempts to play with him but that cold hearted boy just ignores her hahaha.

 

also, she IMMEDIATELY crunched up her half chicken drummie :D she didnt know what to do for about 2 min, i went into her x-pen and held it for her, she licked it and grabbed it from my hand and ran off, and after that she was munching and crunching AND EVEN USED HER PAWS TO HOLD IT DOWN OMGGGGGG. :D :D :D i only gave her that but ended up giving her a chicken neck after an hour because i dont want to feed her last meal later than 6pm (she's peed about 10 times in about 2 hrs, sweet baby jesus)


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#12
Iorveth

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She's adorable! 

I remember when we brought home Buck... Dude was NOT happy. Both my boys are from the Carolinas so when we only had Dude, we took him to the airport with us to pick Dude up. He stayed in the car while we went in to get Buck and Dude was his normal, calm self while we were gone and we got the normal casual, "Oh, hey. You're back," reaction from him... Until he saw the puppy. He laid in the back with his back to us the whole way home. He was cold towards Buck for a LONG time. 

The funniest was when we took Buck to his first vet appointment a few days later, leaving Dude at home. Dude was so happy to see us when we came home... Until he saw we STILL HAD THE PUPPY. Until Iorveth (who is incredibly expressive) I had never seen such an obvious look of betrayal and disgust. His whole demeanor just deflated when he saw it wasn't just us that came through the door. 

He did eventually warm up to the idea of another dog, but he never truly became buddies with either one. He really was the same dog whether there were other dogs around or no. He was an odd dog. 

Anyways, congrats on the new puppy! Everyone's getting puppies and it's driving me nuts. Dude's only been gone a couple of weeks but I was ready for a puppy hours after he died. I just don't see them as a replacement, you know? Talking to naturalfeddogs about Aussis made me remember how much I want a Kelpie, but I want to wait on another herder until we actually have sheep. I am also dying for another Xolo, but I still want my big, floppy Dane puppy. THEN there's the fact that we live in a small house and just really think we ought to wait until we move but that's a couple of years down the road!



#13
naturalfeddogs

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Oh soooo cute!!! And the puppy breath....... :jig:



#14
lovemyboys88

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Awww she is so precious!!

#15
Iorveth

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Oh, and in a few months, you'll have the joy of checking every item of clothing before you put it on to prevent stabbing yourself with a dropped puppy tooth! After stepping on and drawing blood from a shed carnassial tooth on the floor, I even go so far as to wear shoes in the house during that time! Although, with Iorveth, that's a risk throughout his whole life since he could potentially lose adult teeth. It hasn't happened yet (knock on wood until my knuckles bleed), but it could!


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#16
Erica

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She's already teething like crazy so I don't really want to image that lol. I wouldn't say crazy actually. More of, exploring the world with her mouth haha. Thank goodness she leaves our (cheap) furniture alone xD

 

 

Should I be concerned if she hasn't pooped in almost 24 hours? She may have pooped somewhere in secret since they're very tiny, but we're doing a good job of taking turns playing hawkeye on her lol. I'm not measuring, and I've fed every meal bone-in. I should probably increase her boneless intake...? She hasn't had any runny/nasty poop thus far. She seems normal for a puppy. That is, sleeping half the day and annoying Max the other half..oh, and screaming her tiny little lungs out starting at 4 am hahah .____.



#17
Erica

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Oh, also idk if this is worth mentioning or not, but she did get vaccinated and dewormed yesterday afternoon (so, roughly 12 hours after her last bowel movement)



#18
Erica

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Ok disregard!! She just went :D normal stool whooo!!!

So I guess my revised question is: is it normal to have one poop even if she's eating 3 small meals?

#19
Iorveth

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I, personally, don't worry if someone skips a day for pooping. I certainly do keep a closer eye on them to make sure they don't show any other signs of odd behaviour, but sometimes they just don't have to poop. On kibble, yes, they pooped every day, but now, even as puppies, my guys would skip a day once in a while. It IS also a possibility with puppies that they did a sneaky poop somewhere else so I did find myself checking any "secret" areas for surprises. haha. 

I wouldn't worry about how often she is pooping as long as everything else is completely normal. To be honest, even my adult dogs have no discernible pattern. Sometimes they poop once a day, especially Buck. Sometimes they poop more. Iorveth always seems to be able to poop since we make sure he poops RIGHT before we put him in his crate. It also depends on what they've eaten or how much. 

I guess my point is that, as long as things are going through properly and her behaviour is normal, she just might not need to poop multiple times per day.



#20
Erica

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Good points. I was just being a worried mama, she has now pooped 3 times since I posted last :)

Ps, she is "too big" for chicken necks. I gave her one this morning and she swallowed it whole lol. Watching her eat makes me so excited because she's such a natural :)




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