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Blood Test Results...


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39 replies to this topic

#21
jagger

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Since amylase is produced by the pancreas in response to ingesting starch/carbohydrates, wouldn't it be expected that a dog fed a diet that excludes carbs had low amylase levels?

 

Is this unusual for a raw fed dog?

 

All the best finding the heath answers with your dog.

 

Bill

 

I really don't know, and trying to narrow down results in search engines isn't easy.

 

Does anyone have a blood test or two showing your dogs amylase levels? I don't they don't produce it in saliva like we do - so is it normal or a deficiency. I really don't know.

 

He's been lapping up the chicken broth well, been getting lots of fluids and his urine has lightened up greatly. Poor bugger was probably getting dehydrated.

 

Tests haven't come in yet.



#22
TRDmom

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Pa Gaw hasn't had blood work done. I probably should have some done as a baseline.



#23
jagger

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Pa Gaw hasn't had blood work done. I probably should have some done as a baseline.

 

That's money well spent... A little extra to check the T4 is good too, wish we had added that to the test last year as we don't have a baseline for it.

He started in on raw in mid December, had the blood test done on him 2 weeks later.



#24
jagger

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Called the vets office this morning, apparently the T4 is "normal" but the rest of the test hasn't come back yet. Could be Thursday before the rest shows.

 

Fed him another thyroid last night.



#25
jagger

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Well, T4 results are in, and these seem to be normal. On the blood test November 30 with the T4 carrier - the T4 was listed @ 13. This prompted the follow up blood test.

 

bloodtest_zpszu5pepke.png



#26
jagger

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And just found out the T3 and antibody test wasn't done, can't rule out thyroiditis. Am I allowed to swear here?

 

 

Since feeding the raw thyroid, this dog has shown 110% improvement. Fed him another thyroid last night and par for the course. There's something going on...



#27
TRDmom

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I'm glad you've seen improvement! I know your boy appreciates your diligence in making him feel better. :)

 

Its bad the vets can't seem to deliver the work you expect from them. I've had issues with nearly every vet in my town! :P



#28
jagger

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I'm glad you've seen improvement! I know your boy appreciates your diligence in making him feel better. :)

 

Its bad the vets can't seem to deliver the work you expect from them. I've had issues with nearly every vet in my town! :P

 

It's driving me insane to be honest. The holistic vet I spoke with has office hours 8-5 monday to friday only, doesn't work for us. Have to look for another.



#29
Spy Car

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I really don't know, and trying to narrow down results in search engines isn't easy.

 

Does anyone have a blood test or two showing your dogs amylase levels? I don't they don't produce it in saliva like we do - so is it normal or a deficiency. I really don't know.

 

He's been lapping up the chicken broth well, been getting lots of fluids and his urine has lightened up greatly. Poor bugger was probably getting dehydrated.

 

Tests haven't come in yet.

 

One thing I remember from wading though the recent study that showed (some) dogs have inherited more genes to produce amylase than typical of wolves, was that this adaptation is spread very ununiformly among dog breeds. So some dogs could easily (do) have less capacity to produce amylase than others. I would think, for those dogs with low amylase production capabliities on a genetic level, that it would be doubly important not to have the dog on a cereal diet.  

 

It is also my *imperfect* understanding, after having read a fair amount of the scientific literature on the canine pancreas, that amylase is released in response to the consumption of starch. If the dog is not eating starch there is no physiological reason, to the best of my knowledge, for a dog to have the elevated amylase levels that a cereal fed dog would have.

 

My knowledge is based on an amateur interest, so not claiming advanced expertise, but it is something I'd discuss with my veterinary doctor before changing course.

 

Bill



#30
TRDmom

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It's driving me insane to be honest. The holistic vet I spoke with has office hours 8-5 monday to friday only, doesn't work for us. Have to look for another.

 

:( Most of the vet's offices here are 8-5 too. The one office in town that does have weekend hours really... made me mad. I can't believe that more vet's offices don't have extended hours since many people work during "regular" hours.



#31
TRDmom

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One thing I remember from wading though the recent study that showed (some) dogs have inherited more genes to produce amylase than typical of wolves, was that this adaptation is spread very ununiformly among dog breeds. So some dogs could easily (do) have less capacity to produce amylase than others. I would think, for those dogs with low amylase production capabliities on a genetic level, that it would be doubly important not to have the dog on a cereal diet.  

 

It is also my *imperfect* understanding, after having read a fair amount of the scientific literature on the canine pancreas, that amylase is released in response to the consumption of starch. If the dog is not eating starch there is no physiological reason, to the best of my knowledge, for a dog to have the elevated amylase levels that a cereal fed dog would have.

 

My knowledge is based on an amateur interest, so not claiming advanced expertise, but it is something I'd discuss with my veterinary doctor before changing course.

 

Bill

 

 

People were discussing this in the raw feeders mailing list I'm on. I'm not at liberty to copy those emails, but I think its OK if I summarize? A wildlife biologist (I believe) was saying that dogs' digestive track has evolved to include enzymes for breaking down plant matter (which happened during the domestication process). It was also said that dogs have not fully evolved to thrive on plant matter, but they are able to *cope* with it better than the wolf.



#32
jagger

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Spoke with a vet tech at a different office - better hours. She actually recommended meeting with 2 of the 5 vets that work out of the office - the ones that are willing to listen. Will talk with gf and make an app't for when one of them are in and we can go together.

 

Spycar, to me it makes sense that amylase would be low but what do I know.

 

 

Kibble really only existed for the last hundred years, stemmed from steel shortages during the war. I have to chuckle when people or vets try to make you believe that dogs evolved in the last hundred years. They can adapt to survive on different food items, but my oh my, vegans eat more that some of these kibble fed dogs.

 

 

I have broken the PMR diet for a few days, and will continue to do so for at least a couple more days. This dog hasn't been getting enough water, boiled down a whole chicken in a gallon of water, removed the bones and have been feeding broth and chicken as small meals. Last night I made dog soup - cut up some sirloin, couple of organ blocks, little bit of grated carrot and celery. He loves it. And it's mainly to get the fluid into him, and give him GI a rest.

 

His feces has been thick, dark and gluey. Finally had a poop this morning, size of my index finger and 8" long. This is the first poop in 2 days, not good. Hoping the extra fluid will help him along - then he goes back to raw.

 

As a side note, still feeding a bit of thyroid here and there, he's doing great so far. Think the next step is the full T3 panel and anything else missed.



#33
Spy Car

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To the best of my knowledge the first extruded kibble, Purina Dog Chow, didn't hit hit the market until 1956. Modern indeed.

 

The manufacturing relied on technology used to produce breakfast cereal, which is fitting for a cereal-based food.

 

Bill


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#34
jagger

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Not PMR I know but...

 

If any of you have issues with a dog that doesn't feel well or drink enough water, boil some chicken or beef in water and serve it up. Our little bugger just loves it, he'll drink what i put down for him. Some of it is frozen into ice cubes for future use.

 

Bone broth, he loves that too. Simmer bones on low with a tbsp of vinegar for 24 hours and serve. Some of the bones should disintegrate but strain and serve.


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#35
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The way I see it, dogs and wolves are VERY closely related. Why there is a break, I don't know. Primitive type dogs, like what I have, and dingoes seem to be the "missing links." I view them more on a spectrum of shy/low trainability to confident/highly trainable. Since dogs/wolves are designed to eat raw prey, I believe "kibble" is a big reason why we're seeing so many health issues in companion animals today.


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#36
jagger

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Well, this dog is definitely coming back online. Couple of days on a "soup" based diet and his system is cleaning out nicely. Massive poops the last 2 nights, can't believe what is coming out of this dog, must have been bunged up. His urine has lightened up nicely, was getting worried last week, very dark.

 

Going to start him back on raw chicken tomorrow I think, either the poor feller is starved or he just loves it that much.

 

 

He's really feeling better overall, back to doing his happy dance again. Scratching is near nil, eyes are clear and bright. He's like a drunk that sobered up.


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#37
naturalfeddogs

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Awesome! I'm so glad he's turning around! That's great news!



#38
TRDmom

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Good detective work! It goes to show the importance of an owner's diligence. :)



#39
jagger

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Was speaking with the GF last night, we're really hoping that this is the end of issues. She's going to make the appointment today for the holistic DVM, see if we can get the T3 and antibody test done on him to see if there's a diagnosis to be had. Hope I don't screw up the results by feeding raw thyroid, but it is what it is. Shouldn't matter in the antibody test.

 

Gave him a bath last night, light scrubbing with exfoliating gloves and nizoral shampoo, a soak in epsom salts and a rinse in coconut oil and water just to get rid of the dead skin and hair. It's pitiful to see patches of his skin with lesions from chewing and scratching.

 

Keep your fingers crossed for us. :)



#40
naturalfeddogs

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Fingers crossed! Let us know how it goes!






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