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Possible Kidney Failure Due To High Protein Diet

kidney failure kidney high creatinine level apbt pit bull high proteirisk kidney complications change to kibble kibble

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13 replies to this topic

#1
apitbullslife

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Hello All, its been awhile here in the forum. To update you on Autumn she has been good. We recently found out Autumn had a Mast Cell Tumor on her chest and had surgery yesterday to have that and another growth on her gum line. She is currently resting. I am here because her vet had told me yesterday that her blood work was borderline for her creatinine level and they were close to not going forward with surgery. She advised me that this happens when there is a high amount of protein that in the diet that it becomes too much for the kidneys to breakdown, she sad if this diet continues it could be leading to kidney complications and or possible KIDNEY FAILURE. Autumn is only three years old, she's been on PMR for two years now, all her other past blood work ups have always came back normal as the vet has told me. This is the first ever. I do not know if it could be due to the recent finding of the tumor or if I suddenly did something wrong with meal prepping or if something internally is happening with Autumn. This has been a most stressful time for both of us, harder for me to see her this way. Anyway, the vet had recommend that I turn back to kibble "as dogs are omnivores not completely carnivores" Autumn does get to eat a variety of fruits and veggies with me whenever I have them, which is ever so often. 

 

So how can I change her raw diet to bring down her creatinine levels and keep her healthy? I absolutely do not want to go back on kibble, she has done so well on raw. Her coat, her TEETH!, her self has improved since we switched over two years ago. What should I be doing differently? She gets a variety of bone, meats and organs. Please help me so I can help Autumn!! 



#2
jagger

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So the tumors have been removed? What's her prognosis on that?

 

What was the creatinine level as shown on the blood test? Jaggers test last week came back at 72, I won't complain.

 

It may be time to start tracking what you're feeding - and using percentage of protein per meat.

 

 

 

And from here on in, I'm not taking the word of any one vet anymore. I want a print out of any testing done so I can go through it personally.


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#3
apitbullslife

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So the tumors have been removed? What's her prognosis on that?

 

What was the creatinine level as shown on the blood test? Jaggers test last week came back at 72, I won't complain.

 

It may be time to start tracking what you're feeding - and using percentage of protein per meat.

 

 

 

And from here on in, I'm not taking the word of any one vet anymore. I want a print out of any testing done so I can go through it personally.

The tumors have been removed as of yesterday. Will probably be a week or so until we hear from the oncologist about the grade of the MCT. Her creatinine level shown 1.400 mg/dl and her ATL was 10.000U/L, the ones that I see that are above normal are her MCV, MCH, Hemoglobin, Hematocrit , Lymphocyte%. The only below normal result was her Eosinophil. I will have to find a non-western vet in the area, but its been hard to find one. 

 

What do you mean by using percentage of protein per meat? 



#4
naturalfeddogs

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She's a vet, and will say whatever to get you to feed kibble. Because of the water content in raw, its lower than most kibble in protein. The protein in raw is what their bodies were designed for. My opinion, is if the vet continues to push this issue, I would get a second opinion. Raw averages only 17% protein. Vets will say anything to blame raw. 



#5
TRDmom

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Do you mind sharing what you feed? It doesn't have to be too detailed, but generally what she gets to eat.

 

Tumors are not necessarily diet related. A number of environmental factors can cause them. Also, certain breeds (i.e. Boxers and Golden Retrievers) have shown to have higher incidence rates of cancer than others. Unfortunately, I believe only the number of incidences of cancer in a breed are recorded and cause is not. Do you know if Autumn's parents or litter-mates had issues with cancer/tumors? 



#6
apitbullslife

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She's a vet, and will say whatever to get you to feed kibble. Because of the water content in raw, its lower than most kibble in protein. The protein in raw is what their bodies were designed for. My opinion, is if the vet continues to push this issue, I would get a second opinion. Raw averages only 17% protein. Vets will say anything to blame raw. 

 

 

Do you mind sharing what you feed? It doesn't have to be too detailed, but generally what she gets to eat.

 

Tumors are not necessarily diet related. A number of environmental factors can cause them. Also, certain breeds (i.e. Boxers and Golden Retrievers) have shown to have higher incidence rates of cancer than others. Unfortunately, I believe only the number of incidences of cancer in a breed are recorded and cause is not. Do you know if Autumn's parents or litter-mates had issues with cancer/tumors? 

I haven't gotten any positive feedback from any of her vets that she has seen in her lifetime. Most of them either say that they can recommend a prescribed kibble for so and so reason, smh. Or they'll say that raw bones can be bad and puncture something and break teeth and blah blah blah. 

 

Autumn gets pork hearts, liver, ears, chicken gizzards, hearts, feet, backs, liver, eggs, duck head, feet, beef trachea, liver, heart turkey necks, hearts, lamb meat, homemade bone broth, a blend of kale and spinach, cold pressed organic coconut oil, golden paste. 

 

I do not know if her parents or litter-mates, which we have since lost contact with, have had any issues with tumors or cancers unfortunately.


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#7
naturalfeddogs

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Sounds like typical vet excuses to feed kibble.

 

Sounds like you are feeding a good diet to me. I don't are the diet being the issue. The vets do want you on their food to keep you coming back to them. 



#8
TRDmom

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Sounds like typical vet excuses to feed kibble.

 

Sounds like you are feeding a good diet to me. I don't are the diet being the issue. The vets do want you on their food to keep you coming back to them. 

 

I agree. When my Boxer had cancer (mast cell tumor), the vet never even asked about her diet. Your vet really should do more than blame the diet. Also, what you're feeding sounds fine. I've not fed turmeric/golden paste, but I can't imagine that it would be causing trouble (I've read its very healthy for dogs). If you cut out anything, I would recommend the vegetables, but in small amounts they should be OK. I don't feed plants or grains to my dog as a regular part of his diet, but he LOVES getting leftover rice. I also know people who have fed raw for decades and swear by adding a small amount (like 5-10% of meal) of fruit/veggies and grain.



#9
Iorveth

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*Knock on wood* I have never had an issue with these kinds of things in a young dog and not in any of my recent ones *knock on wood again for good measure*, so I don't know how this would work, but could you get in contact with a raw supporting vet for an opinion? Our vet has fed raw for close to 20 years now and has always been thrilled with the condition and health of our dogs so maybe someone like that could give you an opinion on whether or not this could be food related. 

I know it is important for the vet to see the dog to really know what's going on, but I would think it would be the type of answer someone could at least give an educated opinion on even if the question were hypothetical. Could *insert diet here* potentially be causing *insert issue here*?



#10
apitbullslife

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*Knock on wood* I have never had an issue with these kinds of things in a young dog and not in any of my recent ones *knock on wood again for good measure*, so I don't know how this would work, but could you get in contact with a raw supporting vet for an opinion? Our vet has fed raw for close to 20 years now and has always been thrilled with the condition and health of our dogs so maybe someone like that could give you an opinion on whether or not this could be food related. 

I know it is important for the vet to see the dog to really know what's going on, but I would think it would be the type of answer someone could at least give an educated opinion on even if the question were hypothetical. Could *insert diet here* potentially be causing *insert issue here*?

 

 

I agree. When my Boxer had cancer (mast cell tumor), the vet never even asked about her diet. Your vet really should do more than blame the diet. Also, what you're feeding sounds fine. I've not fed turmeric/golden paste, but I can't imagine that it would be causing trouble (I've read its very healthy for dogs). If you cut out anything, I would recommend the vegetables, but in small amounts they should be OK. I don't feed plants or grains to my dog as a regular part of his diet, but he LOVES getting leftover rice. I also know people who have fed raw for decades and swear by adding a small amount (like 5-10% of meal) of fruit/veggies and grain.

 

 

Sounds like typical vet excuses to feed kibble.

 

Sounds like you are feeding a good diet to me. I don't are the diet being the issue. The vets do want you on their food to keep you coming back to them. 

 

Sorry for the late reply yall. I have been dealing with other health issues with my Shepherd mix. Lord. Can't catch a break! Any way, I've tried to research vets in the area that support raw diets or reach out to folks in my community, but none within close parameters and so far no one else I've met that feeds raw. The only support I find is this website among you folks and folks I follow around the country on Autumns instagram that I trust. Which is hard cos of the volume of people asking for advice and guidance, so getting a response is difficult. There is a place in town that is new and they advertise "raw feeding/BARF" so I will check them out once they have their grand opening. Hopefully they can connect me to a vet who supports raw feeding or have insight for us themselves. 

 

Autumn doesn't get a high amount of veggies. Its a small jar of pureed greens(kale, spinach, ect.) and she typically only gets about a tablespoon once a day and she'll snack off of my fruits and nuts/seeds every now and them. 

 

Is there any thing you guys would recommend that I do differently or start doing? Supplement wise, adding in a new protein?? Also, any recommendations on how to soften and smooth Autumns scar from her MCT removal, she finally got her stitches out this past Saturday! Any thing at all that I would find helpful, you guys have been so helpful and have been such a good support! We appreciate it so much! 



#11
TRDmom

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All I can advise is, at least three meats in her rotation--but more is better. Red meats are also supposed to be more nutritious, but honestly I'm not sure how much more that is. Currently, my freezers have turkey, chicken, and deer (we also have duck and fish, but they need processed before feeding and I've been lazy...).

 

Make sure to give liver at around 5% of diet (either feed weekly or daily). I usually offer beef liver. Chicken is readily available at most grocery stores and cheap--good for when you need some quickly. Rabbit, deer, turkey and duck liver are available to us occasionally throughout the year.

 

Chicken feet (and duck, if you can find them) are a good source of glucosamine and chondroitin (for joint health).

 

For conventionally raised meat (like you get at the grocery store), offer some salmon oil or oily fish (e.g. mackerel) to the diet for omega-3 fatty acid to help balance the omega-6. Too much omega-6 in the diet can cause inflammation, hence the need to balance it. My dog doesn't like fish, so I pump some salmon oil over his food when necessary. Grass-fed meat animals have a better omega-3/omega-6 ratio which shouldn't require supplementation. I love being able to get grass-fed (usually the occasional goat or deer)! :)

 

That being said---where I'm from, most dogs are fed butcher's scraps and "leftovers"--they usually are in better shape than most dogs I've seen in the U.S. Its crazy to think of all the money being spent on 5-star kibble and vet care (i.e. dental cleanings) here, when in other countries people give minimal care and their dogs seem to keep going and going like the energizer bunny!


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#12
apitbullslife

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All I can advise is, at least three meats in her rotation--but more is better. Red meats are also supposed to be more nutritious, but honestly I'm not sure how much more that is. Currently, my freezers have turkey, chicken, and deer (we also have duck and fish, but they need processed before feeding and I've been lazy...).

 

Make sure to give liver at around 5% of diet (either feed weekly or daily). I usually offer beef liver. Chicken is readily available at most grocery stores and cheap--good for when you need some quickly. Rabbit, deer, turkey and duck liver are available to us occasionally throughout the year.

 

Chicken feet (and duck, if you can find them) are a good source of glucosamine and chondroitin (for joint health).

 

For conventionally raised meat (like you get at the grocery store), offer some salmon oil or oily fish (e.g. mackerel) to the diet for omega-3 fatty acid to help balance the omega-6. Too much omega-6 in the diet can cause inflammation, hence the need to balance it. My dog doesn't like fish, so I pump some salmon oil over his food when necessary. Grass-fed meat animals have a better omega-3/omega-6 ratio which shouldn't require supplementation. I love being able to get grass-fed (usually the occasional goat or deer)! :)

 

That being said---where I'm from, most dogs are fed butcher's scraps and "leftovers"--they usually are in better shape than most dogs I've seen in the U.S. Its crazy to think of all the money being spent on 5-star kibble and vet care (i.e. dental cleanings) here, when in other countries people give minimal care and their dogs seem to keep going and going like the energizer bunny!

THANK YOU SO MUCH! THIS WAS GREAT ADVICE! 

 

I bought Grizzly Salmon Oil Supplement for Dogs and Cats, made with Wild Alaskan salmon. Is this brand okay? It has 29% Omega 3 fatty acids with DHA at 11% and EPA at 10% and Omega 6 at 3%, Crude Fat at 99.9%. 



#13
TRDmom

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THANK YOU SO MUCH! THIS WAS GREAT ADVICE! 

 

I bought Grizzly Salmon Oil Supplement for Dogs and Cats, made with Wild Alaskan salmon. Is this brand okay? It has 29% Omega 3 fatty acids with DHA at 11% and EPA at 10% and Omega 6 at 3%, Crude Fat at 99.9%. 

 

Yes. I actually just finished off a bottle of that. :)



#14
Poodlebeguiled

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Hi,

 

I just joined, being relatively new to this raw feeding, though I've spent years trying to get up my nerve and reading a lot. Anyhow, this thread caught my eye.

 

This is something you might be interested in...something I came across quite a while ago. It looks like recent research shows that a low protein diet does nothing for the kidneys, even if they are in trouble. 

 

http://www.dogaware....tein.html#start


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