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Restart

pmr restart start over turkey chicken puppy gsd

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15 replies to this topic

#1
Ravena

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Hi guys,

So this is week 3, after 2 weeks of chicken I switched her to pure turkey to test for chicken allergies since we were dealing with crazy itching.  The itching is still there; the only relief she gets is for the 24 hours after a bath, and this is day 5 of turkey. 

But since we've switched to turkey necks, her digestion has been awful, and for the last two days she's had the brown water going on, with limited control - dirtied her bed 2 nights in a row, which she never does. 

Took her out for a hike this morning, and she's still her bright self, but she had to go 5 times in an hour. (After breakfast).

I feel awful for her, especially coupled with the consistent itching, so I'd like to at least get one of the two under control!

Since the itching doesn't look like its a chicken allergy, should I phase chicken back in, one meal on, one meal off, with backs so there's some good bone content in there? 

Fast her for 12 hours to give her stomach a rest? (She's 5months, I don't want to fast for too long).

Switch her back to chicken fully for a few days and then start over with turkey once every 4 meals, etc, as though it were the beginning of week 3 again, since she never had digestive upset on the chicken?

 

Or restart again with chicken for 2 weeks?

 



#2
kathylcsw

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I would probably restart with chicken for 2 weeks. it is possible that her itching isn't food related at all. Dogs can also have seasonal allergies just like people.



#3
Prey Model Raw

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I agree with Kathy.

Start back up on chicken. Sometimes food allergies can take 6 or more weeks to clear.

But since she is relieved after a bath of her symptoms it almost seems like a topical issue....like something she comes into contact irritates her skin.

#4
Ravena

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I gave her a little chicken for lunch, and she has been pooping liquid every half-hour to an hour all day - I'm sleeping on the couch so I can hear if she needs to go out - having to keep her in the kitchen on towels as its the only place in the house with tile.  I'm now giving her a full fast, we'll see how she is at breakfast.  She is one miserable pup right now.

 

The itching is an ongoing investigation, I'm just trying to rule out things as I go along.  One minute bathing helps, one minute it doesn't make a difference, next bath it'll make her itch like crazy (all with the same products).  Vet ruled out most of the nasties - flea allergy was his guess.  We deflea'd the house on sunday in case there's one or two of the little buggers hanging around. 

I just hate seeing her miserable.  If I can't get a fix on it soon its either dermo appointment or rx meds.



#5
Prey Model Raw

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I would do a fast and see if that helps get her system in better shape. At least 12 hours.

How is her energy level? She lethargic at all?

#6
Ravena

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Her energy level was fine up until the evening yesterday when she started to get more lethargic. (So about 7 hours into the fast). She woke me up several times in the night to go poop, but there's very little coming out now. I'm calling my vet when surgery opens @0700 just to keep him appraised. If there's no improvement by mid afternoon then I think a check up would be wise since I don't want her getting too dehydrated.

#7
Ravena

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Heh, I take it back! She just woke up, stretched, grabbed a toy and "killed" it.  Took her outside, normal pee, and she was racing around me on the leash, rolling in the grass and barking at the crows/coyotes she could see in the distance. 

Fast has been 18hours so I'm starting her with a small amount of chicken - she's happily crunching away. 


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#8
Prey Model Raw

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Keep us posted!

#9
Ravena

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Ok so we're back on firebutt symptoms as of an hour ago. She had a great normal day, her usual 2 long walks, plenty of playtime, drank plenty of water.  Breakfast lunch and dinner were all chicken - she gets around 1.7lb right now.  She had a slightly improved poop (very runny, but not watery like before) at 4pm.

What do you guys usually do when you get a bout of diarrhea? I was expecting the odd runny stool but this is violent diarrhea, and before I would have fasted then switched to a cooked chicken/rice diet for a couple of days to let the stomach rest. 
I also would normally take a pup to the vet after 48hours of violent diarrhea like this.  Is this something I should expect during a raw transition and should give it another day on the raw chicken, or should I just take our girl to the vet tomorrow am.  Can you feed the rice/cooked chuck blend to a sick pup if you want to feed pmr normally?



#10
GimMom

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Just keep going with the chicken backs, and Natalie suggested slippery elm tea before when I had the same issues with Gimli. It might help settle the stomach. I was also giving digestive enzymes and kefir, but try the slippery elm first.

#11
Ravena

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Update: I'm really close to breaking down on this one guys. It's been 6 days of diarrhea. She's on 100% chicken backs, did a bit better last two days but today she had two accidents. I haven't slept more than 4 hours in a week, she is constantly waking me up to go outside (we have no yard). I want to continue with the raw but something is clearly tearing up her insides. she switches between a solid poop in a puddle of liquid stool and just pure violent liquid.

I made an appt with vet again, since her itching is getting worse and her diarrhea has gone on too long.

Anyone had similar experiences that can ease my mind? Is this going to improve if I stick to the chicken? I would have fed rice and cooked chicken long ago (which I did when she had a diarrhea episode as a baby) if I was feeding kibble. I have to go to work for 5 hours tomorrow, something that before the diarrhea wouldn't have been an issue. Now I know ill e coming home to an unhappy puppy that's soiled the kitchen. (SO is out of town with impeccable timing)

#12
Prey Model Raw

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I would try her on a different protein like turkey.

It might also be that her intestines are just so irritated that she needs a little medical help to get them back in good condition.

I would also not exercise her quite so much over the next few days because sometimes they just need some rest. Increased peristalsis can possibly just be making things harder for her.

Definitely keep us posted on how she's doing!

#13
Ravena

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Switching to turkey too fast was what started the diarrhea I think - she had amazing digestion on chicken backs/quarters before, lovely solid poop once a day like clockwork.  She was so easy to transition onto raw (not one soft stool after day 1) I guess this is my reality check haha.

I'll do as you suggest and drop her exercise down a bit.  It's hard, the girl loves her hikes and goes nuts without her 2 a day.  Thanks for all your help!  I'm gonna take her to the vet tomorrow am and get a fecal done and ask his advice - thank god he's open about me having her on raw. 

 

She's still scratching like crazy (the turkey/chicken switch didn't seem to affect it), so I think my next stop after my regular vet is the doggie dermo.  High maintenance shepherd - good thing she's so darn cute :)


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#14
OwnedBySilly

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You could try a bit of coconut oil with each meal, it often helps with itchy skin as well as digestion issues.

 

Hope she feels better! xoxo



#15
Ravena

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Update on pup:

After two weeks back on pure chicken, her stools are tiny and solid, albeit a lot more frequent than before. We had to unexpectedly go away, and boarded her with my vet as we were unable to get a sitter on short notice (4 days). They fed her raw which I portioned up for them.
The day I picked her up she had chewed the fur off her hindquarters and picked up a bacterial infection (I assume from the itching). So now she is on antibiotics, and I've caved and put her on an antihistimine with small doses of pred.

After trying a dozen home remedies it really was the only thing that helps: she barely scratches an she's a happier pup - the only side effects have been more frequent potty breaks which is expected on pred.

We will see what happens when she's weaned off again. Hate using strong meds on a baby but she was very miserable.

Thanks for everyone's advice!

#16
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Keep us posted!





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