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Started Raw Yesterday... Cb!

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21 replies to this topic

#1
meghan&mya

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I started Mya on raw yesterday. I gave her a chicken wing in the am and one in the pm (she gets 1/2 lb food a day) and today she has CB. Am I feeding too much bone? Or should I only feed her a 1/4 lb a day to start off with. Or is this normal and it will pass? I just want to make sure I'm not doing something wrong like feeding the wrong type of food

#2
naturalfeddogs

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Just a wing, or was anything else added?



#3
meghan&mya

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One wing in am and one in pm the first day. 2nd day was wing in am, thigh in pm. Is that too much bone? I don't want her to get impacted or something

#4
Spy Car

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Way too much bone.

 

Chicken wings are 46% bone. The prey model calls for 10% bone. Even thighs (alone) are about 2.5 times the PMR ratio.

 

Bill



#5
meghan&mya

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What parts should I be feeding them to make sure she's getting 10%? And are thighs still too much bone even for the beginning?

#6
Spy Car

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What parts should I be feeding them to make sure she's getting 10%? And are thighs still too much bone even for the beginning?

 

There are mixed opinions on this, I'll give you my own thoughts.

 

I don't believe one needs to hit the 10% target on Day 1. The bone-heavy recommendations in the getting started guide (which I believe are excessive) are designed reduce the odds of explosive diarrhea (aka cannon butt). Certainly a worthy goal, but it seems to me that better route to this end is to restrict the amount of fat in the initial raw meals.

 

Fat is the natural fuel for dogs. There is no question about that. Numerous scientific studies have proven the superiority of fats to carbohydrates as an energy source. But dogs in transition need to be conditioned to fat-burning. There are changes in digestive enzymes released by the pancreas and actual changes in mitochondrial activity inside cells when dogs burn fat. These changes are all to the good. The GI tract also seems to need a little transition time as well, and some dogs more than others in order to avoid loose stool.

 

It is hard to give exact percentages of what it takes to keep stools firm, because individual dogs are different, and I think all here would agree that is is best to follow the dog's needs, not a fixed number.

 

That said, I'd advise trying to transition to somewhere in the 20% (on the high side) to 15% range. Then alter from there, trying to slowing work towards PMR ratios. I'd also start (at the very beginning) stripping some or all of the skin/fat in the first meals. Not a practice to maintain, as fats are essential. But better IMO to slowly increase the fat levels (with stool consistency) than to plug up a dog with excessive bone. This helps condition a dog to fat burning and conditions the GI tract to a high fat high protein raw diet.

 

Always, the individual dog should be the determining factor. If the dog needed 24% bone to keep stools from being runny, that's what I'd provide. 

 

Use your inner-intelligence as your guide.

 

To balance early meals you could use small amounts of boneless skinless chicken breast long with bone-in pieces like thighs or drumsticks.  Again skinless would only be for the short-term, as fat (skin) is the prime energy source for raw fed dogs, and one that is very good for their health.

 

Then adjust based on stool consistency, while working towards PMR percentages and a full serving of fat. If lowering the fat along with moderate bone didn't fully do the job, i'd increase bone. But only if necessary. KWIM?

 

Bill



#7
meghan&mya

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I started removing the skin off of the thighs this morning for her meal. I'll continue that until her stool hardens up. Also, I've read about giving fish oil supplements, but is there anything else I should add to her diet besides meat bones and fish oil? Also, how much fish oil for a 17 lb dog

#8
naturalfeddogs

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I agree with Bill that its likely too much bone right now, and causing some digestive tract irritation. I would back off, and as things clear up slowly increase depending on her bone amount needs.



#9
naturalfeddogs

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I started removing the skin off of the thighs this morning for her meal. I'll continue that until her stool hardens up. Also, I've read about giving fish oil supplements, but is there anything else I should add to her diet besides meat bones and fish oil? Also, how much fish oil for a 17 lb dog

I wouldn't add any oil right now. Let her system straighten out. Otherwise you will risk even more cannon butt. Right now, this early in the game less is more. 

 

That should be the only supplement needed. As long as its fed in variety, meat/bones/organs supply all that is needed.



#10
meghan&mya

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I should just stick with thighs without the skin for now?

#11
TRDmom

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I should just stick with thighs without the skin for now?

 

Just thighs wouldn't contain enough bone. One thigh and one wing per day may be a good balance for her.



#12
naturalfeddogs

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^^what she said^^, and do remove skin for now. Just for a few days to help firm the poops. Then, slowly start adding it back on. 



#13
meghan&mya

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I thought wings were way too much bone though? She does eat them extremely easily though, and they're the perfect weight, at exactly 1/2 her daily amount of food

#14
meghan&mya

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Would I eventually just want to feed a thigh and a boneless breast? I think that would be closer to 10% bone

#15
naturalfeddogs

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It may actually not be too much bone, but too much food in general at once. You can try feeding less at each meal.Don't get too hung up on the 10% thing. Adjust more or less until you find the right balance for your dog. The 10% is just a guideline.


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#16
Spy Car

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I would feed thigh (skinless) and a small portion of skinless breast in the short term. That should be plenty of bone IMO. Well over PMR ratios.

 

I would not feed thighs and wings. The dog has already shown GI upset with bone-heavy meals. So I'd aim for going moderately-over PRM (in the 15-20% range for bone) and adjusting from there (in a hopefully downward direction), while slowly adding back the fat.

 

Bill



#17
meghan&mya

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Great news!!! We have solid poops! The question now is, how do I wean off the bone? Do I just give her one boneless meal and a thigh?

#18
Spy Car

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Great news!!! We have solid poops! The question now is, how do I wean off the bone? Do I just give her one boneless meal and a thigh?

 

What have you been doing over the past week (or so)?

 

Bill



#19
meghan&mya

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Thigh in am, wing at night

#20
naturalfeddogs

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You could go with one boneless meal, and one meal a wing. See if poops stay good, then trade the wing for a thigh. 






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