12 replies to this topic

[meghan&mya]

Just stumbled upon this dog food on amazon..... can dogs even be healthy off this diet?? How would they even digest a 100% plant diet. This blows my mind 

 

 

http://www.amazon.co...upplies&sr=1-63

[jagger]

I watched this years ago, it's an eye opener. Touches dogs and vegan owners as well, apparently it's a "thing" in parts of the world.

 

[naturalfeddogs]

Well, unlike a cat a dog could LIVE on it, but would they actually thrive and be really healthy? No. They would be lacking a lot of nutrients, and probably have a shorter life span as well. Certainly not something I would ever consider at all. It's hard to believe there are people out there who really believe that's a good quality food.

[meghan&mya]

It just blows my mind that someone would feed a dog this. There's no reason why they would need to be vegan

[naturalfeddogs]

It just blows my mind that someone would feed a dog this. There's no reason why they would need to be vegan

They shouldn't be. Its not healthy at all.

[TRDmom]

My two cents is that people are humanizing dogs. As much as I love animals, you're not doing them any favors by forgetting they are another species. As already said, yes, a dog CAN live on it, but it isn't ideal nutrition. BTW--it's expensive!!

[meghan&mya]

If you're that hard core of a vegan, you probably shouldn't be owning a carnivore..... This makes me really angry

[naturalfeddogs]

I don't have a problem with vegans having dogs, they just shouldn't humanize them and expect them to be vegan as well. Dogs just weren't designed to eat that way. JMHO.

[jagger]

Well, some dogs are vegan and the owners don't even know it. A friends mastiff cross - believed to be full of allergies - is living on purina HA.

 

 

Ingredients (HA)

Starch, hydrolyzed soy protein isolate, vegetable oil, dicalcium phosphate, partially hydrogenated canola oil preserved with TBHQ, powdered cellulose, corn oil, potassium chloride, guar gum, choline chloride, DL-Methionine, salt, magnesium oxide, lecithin, taurine, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, copper sulfate, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, garlic oil, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.

[naturalfeddogs]

Not surprising coming from Purina.

[Iorveth]

Every time someone brings up vegan dogs I think of Che, the dog from The Goode Family. 

 

 

This is only a short clip, but basically, this dog belongs to an extreme vegan family and force him to eat like them. Neighborhood pets are always missing and there are always "Missing" posters everywhere because Che hunts and eats them and he sees meat everywhere he looks.

 

 

My two cents is that people are humanizing dogs. As much as I love animals, you're not doing them any favors by forgetting they are another species. As already said, yes, a dog CAN live on it, but it isn't ideal nutrition. BTW--it's expensive!!

 

I absolutely agree. We're all guilty of it to a certain degree, but I think we can get away with the minor things because dogs are so much smarter than people give them credit for. Like sometimes I swear my dog understands english. We fed him his first blueberry the other day when we were making smoothies and he wasn't sure about it at first. I told him, "dogs like blueberries" and he looked at me and immediately picked up the blueberry and ate it. 

I also have a lot of "commands" that aren't commands and have just developed over time. Guests have thought I was talking to another person and look at me like I'm some kind of animal communicator when I casually say something like you would to another human and Iorveth does what I've just told him to do. One of our friends was watching him look for his fox toy and I casually told Iorveth that it was on the other side of the couch. Iorveth looks at me, hops over the couch, and grabs his toy. Our friend couldn't believe what she had just seen, but that kind of thing happens here all the time. I don't know why, but it does. I think it's the intelligence that makes a lot of people feel like dogs are just furry (with exception, like nekkids like Iorveth) little people. 

I watched a documentary about a guy who raised a male spotted hyena in an 8th floor Miami Beach apartment and he talks about how treating an animal like an animal gets you an animal reaction, but treating an animal like a human will get you a human reaction. I would like to take all of these people and have them try to treat something like a horse like they would a human. The horse's brain is not something you can get away with something like that. 

In the end, this kind of anthropomorphizing leaks into all aspects of owning the animal to the point where they think the dog doesn't want to harm other animals any more than they do and it's just bologna.

If people want to be vegan, that's great. I won't stop them. However, that's a choice they are making for themselves as omnivores, but a dog doesn't have the luxury of choosing his own diet. It is our responsibility to choose a diet that is best for THEM, not our emotions or beliefs.

[gilmacd]

Just saw this post and feel that I can reply and give some insight first hand. Why? Well, I'm a vegan. Of course, my dogs and cats aren't. Why? Because I understand that dogs and cats are carnivores. Alas, most of my vegan friends have been brainwashed into believing that their beloved dog companions are carnivores. Where did they get this ludicrous idea? Think hard on this one and you'll have the answer. It didn't come from other vegans. It came from business owners when they first started promoting kibble for dogs and cats. Now think about what is in kibble? Right, wheat, corn, and whole lot of other crap that is extremely difficult for dogs to digest. So in order for pet food companies to market their products what did they do? They lied! They told us that our dogs aren't exactly like their wolf ancestors. They are omnivores! This was the lie created by the pet food companies to sell you a twenty pound bag of compressed pellet food for your dogs that you believe is healthy. Ok, so now our society actually starts to believe all dogs are omnivores while their health continues to decline. What happens next was equal to the fat lady singing. It was the final nail in the coffin. A well respected doctor of veterinary medicine named Pitcairn wrote a book called Natural Health for Dogs and Cats. In it, he basically tells the world that dogs most certainly can live healthy on a vegetarian diet and he even supplies recipes.

It gets better. A few years later a product comes out called Vegecat. The next product to come out is Vegedog. Both are supplements that you can add to cooked food that must be cooked down to a mush. Some of this is mixed with rice. And yes, according to the manufacturer, your dog or can live a healthy, long life. Now I don't blame the guy who started Harbinger's that owns vegecat and vegedog. He was following suit. A few other doctors came out with articles and the guy who started the company had his ammunition. So now we have vegecat and vegedog.

Now we have a very, expensive vegan dog kibble from Italy called Ami. I actually cringed when I saw the ingredients. Most of the ingredients in Ami are extremely difficult for a dog to digest.

And the madness continues. We have two companies that produce vegan products exclusively for dogs and cats and many of the big companies make at least one brand of vegan kibble for dogs. And this is all due to a lie started by the pet food manufacturers to sell us their nasty kibble. Just yesterday, I found a post in a Great Dane rescue group talking about how good carrots are for dogs. And none of these people were vegans nor was the person who made the video!

What is the worst part of this for someone like me? I have to be very stealth when talking with my fellow vegans about my animals. And of course, there is an article circulating about a very long-lived dog that was supposedly vegan who lived to be 26+ years. Now there's an entire website devoted to long-lived vegan dogs. And every time I tell my friends that dogs may survive on a vegan diet but they will not thrive, I get boos and hisses along with people calling me names like fake vegan, etc. And this is one reason why my user name is somewhat stealth. My friends cannot guess why identity by my username so this anonymity allows me some protection to discuss being a vegan with carnivore animals.

And if there are any other vegans here I'll answer the big questions. Yes, I have a separate freezer for the dog and cat food and a separate, small refrigerator for thawed food that is used just for the dogs and cats. And yes, I have a separate dehydrator for when I make them treats. And finally to anyone that wants to scream at me I will say this. I try my best to purchase animal product that my local butcher shop is about to toss. And, in fact, he knows what I want when I come in so he often will put things aside. And the best part of doing this? The butcher is thankful to me because a lot of the food I buy from him, at reduced prices, he was about to toss. So he still makes a profit, albeit lower than what he planned. And he has fewer things to toss out because I usually make one trip a month to him and he basically loads up two insulated camping chests that keep my food cold.

Finally, my last word is thus. Dogs are carnivores. Science tells us this and biology tells us this. Dogs do not produce amylase in their saliva for breaking down starches so anytime we introduce plant starch we put a strain on their pancreas to produce enough amylase that will allow their bodies to digest this food. Wolves too produce amylase the same way. They can produce amylase in their pancreas but they never need to. If wolves consume berries there is enough amylase collected from their prey to break down the fruit. Dogs can live as vegans but they do not thrive because a vegan diet is not something that should be consumed by a carnivore. We, on the other hand, are a different matter. But, as someone else said, our dogs and cats are dependent on us to make decisions for them. Food is the most important choice we make because it directly affects their longevity.

I understand that vegans want to do the least amount of harm. I am the same. However, if you are a vegan and the idea to feed your dog or cat a prey model raw diet makes your squirm then I recommend you find a suitable family, or families for your animals and then I recommend that you go and adopt sheep, burros, horses, goats, guinea pigs, rabbits, hamsters, etc. since they are all vegan animals or animals who genuinely thrive on a vegan diet.

[Iorveth]

Gilmacd, no one here will yell at you for being a vegan. While I personally don't agree with the diet, it is not my choice or my place to tell people what they should be eating provided they are not depriving themselves of important nutrients. I have vegetarian and vegan family members and, as long as I am left alone about my diet, I will leave others alone about theirs. My only concern when it comes to vegans and vegetarians is the youngsters who think they can just eat fruits and veggies and call it good. I've seen young family members in my own family get all emotional about saving the animals and just cutting meat from their diet without thinking about the fact that eating salad for every meal just won't cut it.

Frankly, I admire vegans who can put aside their own human feelings and morals and accept that their carnivorous pets need a species appropriate diet. I applaud those who can set aside their own human desires and make sure their animals get the diet they deserve. I've known vegans who are absolutely revolted by meat, but still force themselves to get past their aversions to provide their carnivorous pets with an appropriate diet.