Jump to content

Welcome to Prey Model Raw
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.
Login to Account Create an Account
Photo

Newbie"researching Pmr"

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
93 replies to this topic

#61
Kananigurl564

Kananigurl564

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38 posts

He may have eaten too fast. Mine will do that also sometimes, and when they do I just don't worry about it and give them the chance to re eat it again. Sometimes they will, as gross as that sounds. It could also be that he ate too much at once.

 

Since you are giving pork ribs, try giving a boneless chicken breast, instead of the quarter. He's getting bone in the pork, and adding something boneless will be good for more meat, and not quite as big as a breast. Raw is a balancing act, and it could be just a little too much at once (as well as eating too fast). 

Ok, I see, I will definitely try that chicken breast thing, THANK U so much for the tip. Yah, he didn't wanna eat it after lol! I've seen dogs eat there throw up though, it is gross...but i know its normal for them haha! Thanks again!  



#62
TRDmom

TRDmom

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 470 posts
He may have had too much. I would have fed that in two meals instead of one. Dogs only have so much room in their stomachs. They will gorge and then throw up if there isn't enough room.
  • Kananigurl564 likes this

#63
Spy Car

Spy Car

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 378 posts

Hi Bill. 

Do you feed can type sardines, anchovies, etc?

 

In my research I have read the 80% meat 10% bone % 5% organs... So can i wean my boy off of whole chicken quarters and mix in slowly chicken gizzards since that should make up the 80% meat? 

 

I feed fresh whole raw oily fish (not PNW Salmon/Trout. Fresh fish is inexpensive where I live. Canned fish is OK, but I'd be careful of too much sodium.

 

I don't think I'd make gizzards a major component of the diet, given the idea of PMR is to approximate a hypothetical prey. So I do feed gizzards, but not out of proportion to other elements. Does that make sense?

 

Bill


  • Kananigurl564 likes this

#64
Kananigurl564

Kananigurl564

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38 posts

I feed fresh whole raw oily fish (not PNW Salmon/Trout. Fresh fish is inexpensive where I live. Canned fish is OK, but I'd be careful of too much sodium.

 

I don't think I'd make gizzards a major component of the diet, given the idea of PMR is to approximate a hypothetical prey. So I do feed gizzards, but not out of proportion to other elements. Does that make sense?

 

Bill

Hey Bill, Yes it makes sense. I just get so confused becuz a lot of pmr sites, pledge by the 80% muscle meat diet (gizzards, hearts, lungs, tounges) so is this not true in sense? 

 

So i can just feed chicken quarters with a little bit of gizzards and that will be fine?


  • Spy Car likes this

#65
Kananigurl564

Kananigurl564

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38 posts

I feed fresh whole raw oily fish (not PNW Salmon/Trout. Fresh fish is inexpensive where I live. Canned fish is OK, but I'd be careful of too much sodium.

 

I don't think I'd make gizzards a major component of the diet, given the idea of PMR is to approximate a hypothetical prey. So I do feed gizzards, but not out of proportion to other elements. Does that make sense?

 

Bill

Also, my boy has diarrhea now since giving him pork. So i just stopped on the pork and plan to give the chicken like was till his poop gets firm again. Then start on beef.



#66
naturalfeddogs

naturalfeddogs

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 2,299 posts
  • LocationTalladega, Alabama

Hey Bill, Yes it makes sense. I just get so confused becuz a lot of pmr sites, pledge by the 80% muscle meat diet (gizzards, hearts, lungs, tounges) so is this not true in sense? 

 

So i can just feed chicken quarters with a little bit of gizzards and that will be fine?

The 80% muscle meat is correct, but it doesn't have to be exactly 80%. Each dog is different. Muscle meat is any boneless meat not considered organs. gizzards and lungs are organs. If your dog is ok with already adding a little gizzard, you can. but if poops get runny back off the gizzards.


  • Kananigurl564 likes this

#67
naturalfeddogs

naturalfeddogs

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 2,299 posts
  • LocationTalladega, Alabama

Also, my boy has diarrhea now since giving him pork. So i just stopped on the pork and plan to give the chicken like was till his poop gets firm again. Then start on beef.

Did you ever give any turkey? This is why I never skip proteins, and go in order. Each protein fed is a little richer than the last, so I wouldn't jump from chicken to pork. That's moving fast for some dogs. 

 

If he was ok with chicken, go back and give chicken for just long enough to get the poops back to normal, and I would give some turkey. You could try turkey thighs. They don't have a lot of bone, but the bone that's there is denser than chicken, so it may be enough. 


  • Kananigurl564 likes this

#68
TRDmom

TRDmom

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 470 posts
I think you're doing ok with going back to chicken for now. It is a good idea to introduce organs, but slowly. Start with roughly a square-inch piece per day and see how its tolerated. After maybe a week or all has been well for a few days, you can increase the portion (maybe double the amount). Since you're expercing issues, you may want to take it that slow.

Here is a list of muscle meats and organs (aka offal). Some items are disputed by people as to which group they belong in, but I think its helpful to have a general idea.
https://k91fancy.wor...-some-tutoring/

Also, focus on what you're able to get. I personally don't see the need to transition your dog on meat you won't be feeding. If all you can feasibly get are chicken, beef and pork, then focus on getting him used to them. His poor tummy will thank you. Good luck!
  • Kananigurl564 likes this

#69
Kananigurl564

Kananigurl564

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38 posts

Did you ever give any turkey? This is why I never skip proteins, and go in order. Each protein fed is a little richer than the last, so I wouldn't jump from chicken to pork. That's moving fast for some dogs. 

 

If he was ok with chicken, go back and give chicken for just long enough to get the poops back to normal, and I would give some turkey. You could try turkey thighs. They don't have a lot of bone, but the bone that's there is denser than chicken, so it may be enough. 

We only have ground Turkey or whole turkey, turkey tails... I was gonna try beef now. But if Ground Turkey or Turkey tails is ok, I will go to that next. Thank u!



#70
Kananigurl564

Kananigurl564

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38 posts

I think you're doing ok with going back to chicken for now. It is a good idea to introduce organs, but slowly. Start with roughly a square-inch piece per day and see how its tolerated. After maybe a week or all has been well for a few days, you can increase the portion (maybe double the amount). Since you're expercing issues, you may want to take it that slow.

Here is a list of muscle meats and organs (aka offal). Some items are disputed by people as to which group they belong in, but I think its helpful to have a general idea.
https://k91fancy.wor...-some-tutoring/

Also, focus on what you're able to get. I personally don't see the need to transition your dog on meat you won't be feeding. If all you can feasibly get are chicken, beef and pork, then focus on getting him used to them. His poor tummy will thank you. Good luck!

Thank u! I will check out that site. I been giving him some skinless chicken thighs with chicken feet for now and see how that goes...



#71
naturalfeddogs

naturalfeddogs

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 2,299 posts
  • LocationTalladega, Alabama

We only have ground Turkey or whole turkey, turkey tails... I was gonna try beef now. But if Ground Turkey or Turkey tails is ok, I will go to that next. Thank u!

I wouldn't go with ground, and if you go with whole turkey, just be careful of sodium. Whole ones are bad about it. Unless you can find thighs or necks, then you may want to move on to another protein. It is hard to find whole turkey with no sodium. All I give in the way of turkey are thighs and necks(whole necks, not cut up).


  • Kananigurl564 likes this

#72
Spy Car

Spy Car

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 378 posts

Hey Bill, Yes it makes sense. I just get so confused becuz a lot of pmr sites, pledge by the 80% muscle meat diet (gizzards, hearts, lungs, tounges) so is this not true in sense? 

 

So i can just feed chicken quarters with a little bit of gizzards and that will be fine?

 

I'm very much of the opinion that the 80/10/10 formula is important. Especially for maintaining the balance between phosphorus-rich meat and calcium-rich bone in the correct ratios.

 

However, 80/10/10 is a little simplistic. For example, the 80% meat should include muscle, fat, connective tissues, non-secreting organs, skin, and potentially fur.

 

Non-secreting organs like gizzards, lung, and heart count as "meat" in PMR. My feeling is that when putting together meals of "frankenprey" (various species fed to mimic actual prey) that because something like gizzards would never form more than a very small part of the total of a chicken, that I personally would not feed gizzards in huge portions relative to a total meal. I do feed gizzards, but as an adjunct to other items. 

 

Not sure if that's clear (or not), but I'd want way more muscle meat than gizzards (for example).

 

I do try to stay in the 80/10/10 model. With-in the 80 I try to mix muscle, non-secreting organs and other offal, connective tissues, and other items in ways that come reasonably close to matching a "prey model." So feeding massive amounts of something like gizzards (that make up a small portion of chicken (as prey) would not fit my ideal objectives.

 

Bill


  • Kananigurl564 likes this

#73
Spy Car

Spy Car

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 378 posts

Also, my boy has diarrhea now since giving him pork. So i just stopped on the pork and plan to give the chicken like was till his poop gets firm again. Then start on beef.

 

I mentioned earlier that from reported experiences it seems to me like more dogs have issues with pork that with beef. So were I advising one on a "progression" of proteins, pork would be a late stage item. Cheap fatty pork is a nice item for supplying energy and is typically economical relative to beef and lamb. But it seems like the fat in pork is something many dogs need to work up to digesting well.

 

Please continue to give the excellent feedback. We all learn through this process.

 

I hope beef goes well.

 

Bill


  • Kananigurl564 likes this

#74
Kananigurl564

Kananigurl564

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38 posts

I wouldn't go with ground, and if you go with whole turkey, just be careful of sodium. Whole ones are bad about it. Unless you can find thighs or necks, then you may want to move on to another protein. It is hard to find whole turkey with no sodium. All I give in the way of turkey are thighs and necks(whole necks, not cut up).

Yah I can't find any turkey parts... Even at the Asian markets they don't have that.



#75
Kananigurl564

Kananigurl564

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38 posts

I mentioned earlier that from reported experiences it seems to me like more dogs have issues with pork that with beef. So were I advising one on a "progression" of proteins, pork would be a late stage item. Cheap fatty pork is a nice item for supplying energy and is typically economical relative to beef and lamb. But it seems like the fat in pork is something many dogs need to work up to digesting well.

 

Please continue to give the excellent feedback. We all learn through this process.

 

I hope beef goes well.

 

Bill

I couldn't find any beef cheeks also, What is another beef cut I can give??? And what are your thoughts on Grass fed ground beef??? Thank u for everyone's help!!!!



#76
Spy Car

Spy Car

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 378 posts

I couldn't find any beef cheeks also, What is another beef cut I can give??? And what are your thoughts on Grass fed ground beef??? Thank u for everyone's help!!!!


Beef heart is typically one of the least expensive cuts. Here in SoCal I can get it in markets for $1.99 or a little more from a specialty butcher. Heart from the market is typically very lean (so good to start, but may need fat supplimentation longer term). One of my favorite things is beef trim (if you can get that).

I tend not to feed ground beef (or ground anything *if* whole is available as an alternative). That's partially because dogs get so much benefit from chewing. However, if I were feeding other whole parts (chicken, organs, other meats, and connective tissues) and ground beef were my only reasonable "beef" option, I'd use it. One of those cases of not letting "perfect" be the enemy of the good. But all things being equal I'd go for non-ground products.

With beef heart, go slow. It does seem to be another item that some dogs need to get used to.

Bill


  • TRDmom and Kananigurl564 like this

#77
TRDmom

TRDmom

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 470 posts

Beef heart is typically one of the least expensive cuts. Here in SoCal I can get it in markets for $1.99 or a little more from a specialty butcher. Heart from the market is typically very lean (so good to start, but may need fat supplimentation longer term). One of my favorite things is beef trim (if you can get that).

I tend not to feed ground beef (or ground anything *if* whole is available as an alternative). That's partially because dogs bet so much benefit from chewing. However, if I were feeding other whole parts (chicken, organs, other meats, and connective tissues) and ground beef were my only reasonable "beef" option, I'd use it. One of those cases of not letting "perfect" be the enemy of the good. But all things being equal I'd go for non-ground products.

With beef heart, go slow. It does seem to be another item that some dogs need to get used to.

Bill

 

 

Well said, Bill! I especially like the part that we shouldn't allow perfect to be the enemy of good.

 

Pretty much any cut/type of beef can be fed. I would stay away from the large, weight-bearing bones though. They're too dense to be eaten and could potentially break a tooth. That said, I did offer some beef "soup bones" to a puppy who couldn't get their mouth around it as a toy. The pup enjoyed licking and pushing it around. A couple of mine would have tried to eat it...

 

Tongue, tripe (green/unbleached), and oxtail are some beef "goodies" in addition to the more common beef cuts and organs (ie. kidney, liver, spleen, lung). I once fed a meal of beef tongue and beef cheek... I so badly wanted to take a picture of "tongue in cheek," but didn't think others would really understand the humor. LOL 

 

Like Bill said, thank you for detailing your experience. Its good for others to learn from.


  • Spy Car and Kananigurl564 like this

#78
Kananigurl564

Kananigurl564

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38 posts

I'm so lost... Idk what I'm doing wrong here. His stool is runny again. On just Chicken quarters(no skin), 1 chicken breast, 3 pc. chicken feet. Is that just too much bone or something?



#79
naturalfeddogs

naturalfeddogs

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 2,299 posts
  • LocationTalladega, Alabama

What is the sodium level of the chicken you are feeding? 

 

Is the chicken breast bone in, or boneless?


  • Kananigurl564 likes this

#80
Kananigurl564

Kananigurl564

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38 posts

What is the sodium level of the chicken you are feeding? 

 

Is the chicken breast bone in, or boneless?

boneless






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

We use this company for SEO