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So Itchy!


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#21
Prey Model Raw

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it was just her dinner because it was 5-10 min after feeding. Thinking more about it now, she has had to throw up in the daytime before, and that was bile.  

 

I worry that turkey necks alone would be too much bone…?

 

When dogs bring up their food right after eating it's as Jenny said....regurgitation. Some dogs, for whatever reason, do this on occasion. Like one of my Dane girls will do this with turkey almost every time. She brings it back up, and then re-eats it. At first it was like she was ashamed at it....and she wouldn't eat it again. Then I started to ignore her, like almost as if it didn't happen, and now she will eat it again. It's gross but just a part of raw feeding. 

 

The bile pukes could indicate that too much bone is being fed. Most raw meaty bones that are widely available are at least 20-30% bone which is fairly high. If you are feeding bone in meals every time you are feeding nearly 2-3 times the amount of bone they typically need for maintenance. So once they're done with the transition and are handling things well, you want to back down your bone in meals. For instance, I feed alternating days of bone in and boneless meals. 

 

I'm sorry you are having a bit more difficult of a time than most do. How is the itchy dog doing? 



#22
Aspen

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I am playing with the bone to meat ratio more now that they've become accustomed to raw a bit more now, so i have up'd their meat content, but i think i'll try what you suggested and alternate feedings and then days. I feed turkey necks, chicken carcasses, ground chicken(no bone), and ground beef with bone. Its hard to figure out the ratios just by looking at it, so some days i'm sure they get a bit too much bone… i'll try to keep a closer eye and be a bit more pro-meat LOL

 

The itchy one is doing much better but still itchy throughout the day, I think the combination of cutting the beef and giving her body rinses is helping. Do you recommend that i try introducing a different protein like pork? I'm not sure what my next step should be with her..



#23
Rambo's Mum

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I also had yeast issues with mine, and found that too much chicken, even in raw form, gave him the itch all over. Then his ears would start turning pink, too. Vinegar rinses definitely helped, and I used Zymox in his ears when we first switched to raw and his yeast allergy was at its worst. It went away and then kind of came back a little bit, but once I reduced his chicken intake (he still gets drummies once a week), he was much better.

Hi GimMom,

 

My baby lab girl is also starting to itch too and I suspect too it might be the chicken. So, I gave her duck as well now. Do you think that would help?



#24
Rambo's Mum

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My poor girl Tyra is so itchy, even worse than when on kibble :(

 

The first week of raw was great but then during the second week the scratching started. I was only feeding chicken and turkey necks at that time. Around the third week i introduced beef and have been feeding a variety of the 3 ever since but she's still really bad. Its not just constantly scratching, all along her back there are spots with oily brown substance at her skin. I shaved her pretty short the other day and it all washed off, but she has these spots all over. Now her normally pink skin looks enflamed all over and she's scratching her sides raw. We're now in week 5 and my hubby and i are wondering if this just isn't working for her, or to wait it out and see if its getting worse before it gets better (detoxing?).

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Oh my! Welcome to this unpopular itchy club. My poor golden boy is a yeasty dog too and I suspect my little lab girl is getting to be a yeasty dog as well.

 

Yesterday I just read somewhere that sugar contributes to yeast and I remembered Nat told me the same thing in my the other post,  and I realize  'sugar' may not refer only to table sugar or the ones in crystal form. Actually sugars can be found in all food stuffs especially in higher amount in dairy products like milk and even yogurt. So, you might wanna eliminate any sugars in your girl's diet. Also, yeast can destroy the gut which in turn leads to a leaky gut...oops...wait a min...someone has posted the video on Dr. Karen Becker regarding this matter, which seriously is a good source of information.

 

Good luck to you and your girl and to all whose furkids (including mine) that suffer from the darn yeast infection in curing them! :)



#25
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Pork is a good protein to introduce next- it can be very rich (fatty) so go really slow! What other protein sources do you have access to?

Keep us posted!

#26
Aspen

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thanks for all of your comments and ideas. she's still really itchy and she's only been on chicken/turkey necks for a while now. Not much change and i'm doing rinses twice a day, she's been off yogurt since being on raw(so no sugar there) and i've added a squirt of coconut oil to their dinner but she's still really itchy unless she's sleeping. Her skin is still flaming red most of the time and rebuilding the brown gunk in her armpits. She's shaved as short as a doberman so that i can really see her skin and keep it clean but even that isn't helping much.

 

I hate to say it but i think my run with this is over. Its been about 6-7 weeks now and i only saw slight improvement when i stopped the beef and its honestly hard for me to financially afford anything other than the basic proteins for 2 big dogs that need a lot of food.  If she's doing this poorly on chicken and beef and can't have them, i simply can't afford the more exotic choices to give her full time. She was on bison kibble which worked best for her so i think its telling and not surprising that she can't have chicken/beef/possibly pork. My bf is frustrated and hates seeing her suffer -as do i. i think i'm going to reluctantly make the switch to a high quality kibble again :(  i really wanted this to work and i want the best for my dogs, but at 10 years old maybe this just isn't going to work. They're in great shape for being on good quality kibble before (most can't believe they're 10) and i'll step that up this time with even better since i'm paying more anyways right now comparatively.  My rotti is doing well, (and not regurgitating again) but she does well on pretty much anything and isn't a picky eater, so i'm sure she won't mind kibble again. If i ever get a puppy though, i'm doing raw right away to avoid these dumb allergies!

 

I was looking at the kibble thread and i think i'll try Orijen to start.  Thanks for all of your advice, i love this forum! :)



#27
viry

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I know it's frustrating. :/

My vet derm recommended Malesab shampoo. I've used it in the past in combination with a malesab leave in rinse for my other dogs in the past it helped with their skin issues. Then once they got stabilized I bathed them regularly with head and shoulders . I know head and shoulders shampoo it's not for dogs but it's what helped my guys.

I wish your poor pupp the best.

#28
GimMom

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Zymox also makes an anti-fungal, anti bacterial shampoo for dogs with allergies. I've used their ear drops and it sped up the healing process (it was starting to clear once we started raw feeding).



#29
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Do you shave your dog? And if so, is it a double coated dog?

Maybe it's the shaving/shampoo or some kind of environmental agent that causes her to be itchy. I've seen dogs test positive for allergies to cotton or cat dander. Maybe there's a chance that it's not even related to food....?

#30
Aspen

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Oh i'm sure there's a big chance its not related to food, it could be dust for all i know(i actually know a pitty allergic to dust!) I called my vet to enquire about allergy tests, but of course they'd have to do an exam and then refer to a dermatologist, and she couldn't even give me a ballpark of what the tests might cost, so i don't know if i'm looking at $300 or $1000.  So if it is an environmental allergy, i figure whether she's on raw or a good quality kibble, either have little effect on the allergy as long as i give a food she doesn't react to.  She's done well on kibble so i personally don't see the point in keeping her on raw (besides the fact that i can't afford to feed the exotics, which is probably what she'll need to continue at minimum).

 

Yes, i shave her (and yes, double coated which is fine to shave, contrary to popular belief lol) and have been shaving her for a few years now and its never affected her one way or another,in all of the food and environment changes thats one thing that has remained consistent. i'm a groomer so i see a lot of cause and effect and taking a coat off doesn't make it become allergic, although being able to see the skin will reveal whats really going on. There is potential for hurting themselves scratching because of the lack of hair barrier but thats about it. I know there are great shampoos out there but it doesn't solve the problem and it just isn't possible to bathe her unless i take her to work because of her size alone. Sometimes i wish i had a small dog just for that convenience alone. LOL.



#31
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It's interesting to see the difference between what groomers think is good because the groomers at my work refuse to shave double coated dogs! So I've always thought that it's not a great thing to shave double coated dogs- especially on a regular basis because it can make it harder and harder for their hair to grow through. Huh, guess I learn something new every day!

 

I personally would spend the money to get environment allergy testing done. I would think that testing would cost somewhere around $3-500....maybe call around and see what the derm specialist charges for a consult? 



#32
Aspen

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yup, most around here won't do it either, but we're in the business to do whats best for the dog and cater to what the owner wants instead of what we want. Of course, if its at all  possible to keep the coat we will, but i'm talking about cases where the animal is neglected due to crappy owners or money issues(once a year grooming), pelted (matted beyond brushing out), elderly and arthritic, etc, then by all means we'll try to convince to shave because its whats best for the dog. Being weighed down by the wet water, the length of time it takes to dry it and then dematting/brushing out all while STANDING, is very tough on those cases. You're right though, there is a chance that the coat doesn't grow back properly but we've found we get about 3 shaves in before it does that on about half of the dogs, yet we've been shaving some double coats for years and they look completely natural every time they grow in (my 3 dogs included and i've tried to ruin the coat so i don't have to shave as often LOL, i shave due to shedding and it feels like velvet after). We always warn the owner of this beforehand as well and the risk happens more with the shorter blade (#7&10) so if we can get a longer blade through, then we do that. Most of the dogs LOVE it too, so thats proof enough that we're doing good instead of whats "proper". If we only did whats proper, we wouldn't shave stripped breeds, or clip cocker spaniels and shih tzu's all the way down either ;)

 

I'm still going to look into the dermatologist and quotes, the not knowing is really bugging me LOL


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