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Papillon Eating Raw?

papillon raw new small dog

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#1
Scrat

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Hello! I am new to the forum and am thinking about feeding raw so I came here with a bundle of questions! I have a Papillon who will soon be 5 years old. He's a rescue, so he's pretty large for a Papillon (almost 12 inches at the shoulder and about 12 pounds). He's very energetic and can go forever on walks, but he also likes to cuddle. When I'm not home, he spends his time chewing raw cow knuckles or rawhide and I noticed how much he LOVES the knuckle bones so I would like to look into feeding him strictly raw. However, I do have a lot of questions that I was hoping I could get firsthand answers to!

 

What would the general cost of raw per month be for a dog his size?

     -I am a college student on a limited budget.

     -He currently eats 1/2 cup kibble per day although he often goes a day or a day and a half without eating--he's a little strange!

 

How much would I need to feed him every day?

     -Is it based strictly on weight, or does it vary by the quality/type of meat?

 

Should I feed him once or twice a day?

     -He currently eats only in the evening because he would never eat breakfast anyways.

 

How can I make sure that I am varying his diet enough?

 

What are the effects of feeding him a diet that doesn't vary enough?

     -Will it hurt him if, for example, if I can only find chicken, fish, pork, and beef to feed him?

 

Are vegetables necessary?

     -He's anti vegetable, I think--he won't even eat carrots!

 

Should I supplement the diet with a multivitamin?

     -I know that good diets shouldn't need supplementation, but I worry that he might miss out on some nutrients.

 

What can I feed in place of raw if we are camping or traveling?

 

Does the meat need to be ground for him to eat it?

     -I know some people grind the meat for their dogs.

 

Will he be able to eat all the little bones in the meat or will I have to take them out so he won't choke?

     -For example, all the little ribs in chicken and bones in fish.

 

What kind of training treats can be used when a dog is eating raw?

     -Again, my weird little dog won't eat carrots! Lol!

 

 

That's all I can think of for now! Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated. I want to feed him the best and I keep hearing all these miracle stories about raw. It makes sense to me so I'd like to give it a shot, but I don't know if it is doable, yet. Come summertime, we hike, camp, and travel a LOT and so raw could make that very difficult. I am curious to know if there is a system that I could follow which would ensure he is getting the appropriate balance of vitamins, minerals, and just overall nutrients. I would feel awful if I hurt him by feeding raw wrong which is part of the reason I've never looked into it before. But he loves those raw knuckles for sure and I can see his little doggy heart in paradise if I were to feed him all raw, so I'd really like to learn more about it!

 

Thank you!!


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#2
Prey Model Raw

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A ton of your questions (if not all) can be answered by reading the main articles on the website. Starting with the getting started guide. There's a wealth of information on this website! Because you're not the first with all these same questions.

I will answer them all in depth when I'm on my laptop....but until then, read through everything here- even past threads. You might actually come up with more questions which is great! That's the best way to learn.

Welcome to the forum! I know we would all love to see pictures of your papillon!

#3
Scrat

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Thank you!!! I will definitely browse around! For some reason I can't get pictures to download here...I'll try to figure it out.



#4
Prey Model Raw

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Hello! I am new to the forum and am thinking about feeding raw so I came here with a bundle of questions! I have a Papillon who will soon be 5 years old. He's a rescue, so he's pretty large for a Papillon (almost 12 inches at the shoulder and about 12 pounds). He's very energetic and can go forever on walks, but he also likes to cuddle. When I'm not home, he spends his time chewing raw cow knuckles or rawhide and I noticed how much he LOVES the knuckle bones so I would like to look into feeding him strictly raw. However, I do have a lot of questions that I was hoping I could get firsthand answers to!


This is the place to be for answers, especially when I'm on my laptop!
 
 

What would the general cost of raw per month be for a dog his size?
     -I am a college student on a limited budget.
     -He currently eats 1/2 cup kibble per day although he often goes a day or a day and a half without eating--he's a little strange!



I try and keep my cost to a $1 per pound or less. A lot of that depends on where you live, what resources you have and if you can buy in bulk. So, I would just budget $1-2 per pound.
 

How much would I need to feed him every day?
     -Is it based strictly on weight, or does it vary by the quality/type of meat?


Exactly, a lot of it depends on weight, activity, metabolism, age, etc. Most dogs fall within the 2-3% of their ideal adult weight per day in food. Quality and type of meat don't matter too much.
 

Should I feed him once or twice a day?
     -He currently eats only in the evening because he would never eat breakfast anyways.


I recommend feeding once per day because you can feed a larger chunk of meat or raw meaty bone which will make it easier on you. And since he already limits himself to once per day you shouldn't have an issue feeding once per day on raw as well. Sometimes dogs will get the "hunger pukes" because their body digests raw so much faster and can have a hard time adjusting to not having food in their system pretty much all the time.
 

How can I make sure that I am varying his diet enough?
 
What are the effects of feeding him a diet that doesn't vary enough?
     -Will it hurt him if, for example, if I can only find chicken, fish, pork, and beef to feed him?


You will make sure diet is varied enough if you feed at least 4 core proteins, two of which being a red meat (beef and pork). Obviously the more variety the better so if you have access to 8 proteins, feed them all! Even if one you can only offer once a month.
 

Are vegetables necessary?
     -He's anti vegetable, I think--he won't even eat carrots!


I've never fed vegetables or fruit....and my dogs are going strong without issues to health and major organ function. They usually don't hurt, but for your dog to get any benefit from them you have to puree them. You can add them if you like, but if your dog has issues with them, I recommend cutting them out!

#5
Prey Model Raw

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Should I supplement the diet with a multivitamin?
     -I know that good diets shouldn't need supplementation, but I worry that he might miss out on some nutrients.


I don't supplement with vitamins at all. The only thing I supplement with is wild Alaskan Salmon oil on a fairly regular basis (once per week or so). Again, they're not necessary if you able to get a good variety in but if you want to give them no biggie, unless you see problems of course.
 

What can I feed in place of raw if we are camping or traveling?

 
I've always packed a cooler full of frozen meat to take on the road and camping. We've done ten day trips with 4+ large/giant breed dogs with great success using this method. Some people will use a dehydrated or commercially processed raw diet to make it easier for travelling/packing room.
 

Does the meat need to be ground for him to eat it?
     -I know some people grind the meat for their dogs.


It doesn't. It actually does injustice to the diet because grinding exposes meat and bone to oxygen and bacterial contamination, oxygen destroys nutrients by oxidation (think of how apples turn brown when cut open). Avoiding ground meats is ideal because of these reasons.
 

Will he be able to eat all the little bones in the meat or will I have to take them out so he won't choke?
     -For example, all the little ribs in chicken and bones in fish.

As long as you feed meaty bones (bones surrounded by meat) he should be able to handle it all. Sometimes dogs will use their teeth and paws to hold down their food and tear/rip pieces off of it....which is perfect. Feeding bones without meat around them isn't ideal.
 
 

What kind of training treats can be used when a dog is eating raw?
     -Again, my weird little dog won't eat carrots! Lol!



We dehydrate different meats to make our own treats. Typically you want to give as natural of treats as possible, single ingredient, jerky style treats but it also depends on what your dog can handle. If he can handle typical training treats, no reason not to give them in moderation.
 
 

That's all I can think of for now! Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated. I want to feed him the best and I keep hearing all these miracle stories about raw. It makes sense to me so I'd like to give it a shot, but I don't know if it is doable, yet. Come summertime, we hike, camp, and travel a LOT and so raw could make that very difficult. I am curious to know if there is a system that I could follow which would ensure he is getting the appropriate balance of vitamins, minerals, and just overall nutrients. I would feel awful if I hurt him by feeding raw wrong which is part of the reason I've never looked into it before. But he loves those raw knuckles for sure and I can see his little doggy heart in paradise if I were to feed him all raw, so I'd really like to learn more about it!
 
Thank you!!



I would avoid feeding knuckle bones because they're known to break teeth...even if dogs chew on them for years without breaking a tooth....it just takes one time of chomping just the wrong way to break a tooth.

#6
Scrat

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Thank you!! This has helped so much! I now have a few more questions...

 

How can I reduce the likelihood that he will ingest bacteria or get salmonella?

 

 

Will it hurt if I don't use:

-80% muscle meat

-10% edible bone

-5% liver

-5% other organs

 

 

How can I know that I am giving the right amount of each type of meat?

 

Do I need to provide, say, 5% liver weekly or in each feeding?

 

Thank you thank you for all your help so far!



#7
naturalfeddogs

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Thank you!! This has helped so much! I now have a few more questions...

 

How can I reduce the likelihood that he will ingest bacteria or get salmonella?

 

 

Will it hurt if I don't use:

-80% muscle meat

-10% edible bone

-5% liver

-5% other organs

 

 

How can I know that I am giving the right amount of each type of meat?

 

Do I need to provide, say, 5% liver weekly or in each feeding?

 

Thank you thank you for all your help so far!

 

I'm assuming by "don't use" you mean the percentages? You don't have to follow that exactly, it's really more of a guide since all dogs are different. Some may need more of one thing, and less of another. Another dog may be the opposite. But, yes they are all essential to the diet so the do need to be added. 

 

Bacteria is in all raw meat, but a dogs body is designed to be able to handle it. Their digestive tract is short enough that nothing has to settle in and cause a problem. It's just the way nature designed them. Think about all the gross stuff dogs eat as it is. Like, poop...



#8
Scrat

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Very true!! Yes, I meant the percentages, sorry for the lack of clarity there. It's good to know it's not an exact math. Also, is it a problem if he eats his food then licks me several minutes later??


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#9
Scrat

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I was reading a post where she couldn't feed raw because of her daughter being licked on the face by her dog and she was worried that it could potentially transmit salmonella, e. coli, etc.



#10
Jordann

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I have two boys that have been on raw 6 ish weeks, and I also have a 2 year old. She goes out and loves on them after they eat (sometimes while they are eating) and we haven't had any issues with her being sick. I feel better with her getting loved on by the boys now, than when they were on kibble. Germs are everywhere. :) I know some people wait a little bit to let their dogs lick them. It's all in your preference. :)

Welcome to the board, there are lots of helpful people here!

#11
Scrat

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Thank you for the input!



#12
Prey Model Raw

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Raw feeding is easy if you take away the numbers.....and focus on this:

Feed mostly muscle meat, some bone and some organ from a variety of protein sources.

If you follow that concept you'll be in good shape. Another thing to keep in mind is:

Know Thy Dog

You know your dog better than anyone so you'll know if your dog needs a little extra bone sometimes. Or how much he really needs to be in good body condition.

#13
naturalfeddogs

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Very true!! Yes, I meant the percentages, sorry for the lack of clarity there. It's good to know it's not an exact math. Also, is it a problem if he eats his food then licks me several minutes later??

 

 

Ours have licked us right after eating plenty of times and never had a problem. I don't think it's as big of a deal as it sounds like it could be, and the way a lot of people tend to make it out to be.



#14
swolek

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I was reading a post where she couldn't feed raw because of her daughter being licked on the face by her dog and she was worried that it could potentially transmit salmonella, e. coli, etc.

 

Think about it this way: they lick their own butts :P.


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