41 replies to this topic

[bigjones4]

I've got 2 dogs that I really want to get started on a PMR diet once I fully understand the concept of it. I feel like for the most part I have a brief understanding, start with 1 source of protein, 5-7 straight days of solid stool then add another, and so on and so forth. Feed twice a day, 2-3% of the dogs body weight. Here's where my questions begin:

 

First and most importantly, how much would this cost a month, roughly. I have 2 dogs, the first, Zoey, is 1.5 years old she's a shelter dog but I think she may be German Pinscher and her weight jumps between 45 (ideal weight) - 50lbs (slightly overweight). The second dog, Jeter, is about 7 or 8 months, the shelter guesses that he is German Shepherd/Pitbull and he currently weighs 44lbs. I read that dogs under a year should get 4-5% of their body weight, is this true or should I stick to 2/3?

 

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Second question is, what kinds of chicken/beef/turkey are good to feed. I saw big bags of chicken quarters at the grocery store, I am also looking to get into contact with a local butcher/meat processor and see what I can get from there. I know turkey/chicken necks are popular but I heard variety is key. So what other cuts of meat should I look for? I read that ideally 1 meal should be a raw meaty bone like a chicken quarter and the second meal of the day should be meatier meals, what does raw muscle meat consist of (what should i look to buy)?

 

Turkey: necks, backs, wings, drumsticks, gizzards, hearts

 

Chicken: carcasses, backs, necks, wings, organs, eggs, hearts, lungs, livers, skin, frames, bones, necks and leg quarters

 

Beef: stew meat, ground chuck, organs, marrow bones, lungs

 

Pig: tongues, hearts, livers or feet

 

I found that list on google and was wondering if those are the kinda things I should be looking for?

 

Third, I also read that offal (organs are important)(heart and liver I saw at my grocery store) and should be feed 1 or 2 meals a week, is that what I should aim for?

And I had heard that non bleached green tripe was necessary but here I believe I read that it wasn't a necessity?

I haven't been able to find it anywhere here in Oklahoma..

 

I plan on supplementing fish oil as opposed to feeding fish because I read many dogs aren't the biggest fans of fish, and I also read 1 or 2 times a week feed a meal consisting purely of eggs (shell and all) and treat it as a muscle meat meal and that it is good because it is the perfect ratio of phosphorus to calcium, 1:1.

 

 

Lastly, I haven't been able to find any co-ops here in Oklahoma, the one in Tulsa doesn't seem to be very active, so if there is any residents of the Midwest on here who know of something please let me know!

 

Thanks for taking the time to help me out, I really wanna get my dogs on the PMR diet ASAP but I'm the kind of person who doesn't wanna do something halfway, I wanna make sure I know was much as I can before I start this so I don't put my dogs health in jeopardy!

[Jordann]

First off, welcome to the forum! Zoey and Jeter are gorgeous!

My boys are 6 and 7 years old, so I cannot answer the percentage question. I started my boys out at 2%, but they have actually dropped down to a lower percentage. My older boy isn't as active as my younger guy, so the older (and bigger) guy gets less than the younger smaller guy.

The experienced people will be on in the morning and tomorrow, so they can answer your questions more in depth.

Just wanted to say welcome to the board!

[mollypuddles2001]

Welcome!  This forum is incredibly supportive so ask away with any questions.  We just started feeding this diet in January.  My 2 year old, 135+ pound Great Dane is eating 2.5% of his weight and doing great - he may even be a tad pudgy since eating this way so I may back off a bit.  I am doing the same for our German Shorthaired Pointer and he is doing super as well.  It just seemed like a great starting point - in the middle!  Also, if you dog(s) tend to stay indoors more during the winter and will be outside more in the spring and summer that my require a bit more food.  Just as them getting older may require less.

 

Cost is another factor.  It completely depends upon where your food source comes from and what part of the country you reside.  I am crazy busy with my life right now and don't have the time to hunt after too many resources so I am probably paying more than necessary because my source is the grocery store.  In the future when things calm down a bit I plan to get more creative and really work at hacking down the cost.  When on sale I can get chicken quarters for around $.55 per pound.  Off sale they are running $.79 per pound.  Turkey necks and gizzards are running around $1.49 per pound.  Duck necks about the same.  As you know from your research, you want to start out with chicken (unless there is a chicken intolerance or allergy).  

 

Timing is everything with the Prey Model.  Stay with chicken parts for at least two weeks (longer if your dog needs it - stools are a good marker).  Then move to turkey for a couple of weeks or so, then pork is recommended (although my Great Dane can't eat pork).  Fish and beef are next for consideration.  Then finally, organ meats.  I liked how our moderator of this forum does the figuring out of amount and the once a week feeding.  I will be at that point in the next few weeks and plan to start out with half of what is necessary (due to the richness) and work up weekly from there.  At that point, I hope to introduce other proteins as time and financial resources permit.  Perhaps I can get my insanely busy husband to actually go hunting again and bring some pheasant back!  Its a two-fer for him and our dogs.  

 

Be certain to read and re-read the "How to" portion on this site and continue to ask questions.  Your questions also help us other new members because there might be things we are not thinking about in this journey yet.

 

Take it a week at a time.

 

Cheers

[bigjones4]

Thanks for the help guys! So my 2 both being around 45lbs right now, should I be feeding them one chicken quarter a day along with small amounts of organ meat and small pieces of meaty muscle meat like a few cubes from a chicken breast, or is there different parts of the chicken I should add in for variety?

Also can I simply give the meat to the dogs while they're on the porch (cement) or should I put it in a bowl?

I'm thinking of feeding them on my porch rain, snow or shine.

[bigjones4]

Ohh and what's the key to having the meat thawed in time for meals without going bad and being in the fridge too long? Or can you serve frozen? You guys know all the secrets so I'm hoping you can let me into your world lol!

[bigjones4]

Hey again guys and girls, I was out today at the grocery store and found some packs of Gizzards and Hearts, Chicken Backs and Necks, Chicken Livers and Chicken leg quarters. Here are the prices I paid and how much was in a pack, let me know if this was a good find or not.

 

Leg Quarters - 10lb bag - $6.90 (bought 2 bags, so I have 20lbs)

 

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Chicken Backs and Necks - 0.79/lb (package has roughly 3.35lbs) (bought 2 packs)

 

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Chicken Gizzards and Hearts - 1.23/lb (package has roughly 1.05lbs) (bought 2 packs)

 

 

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Chicken Liver - 1.23/lb (container has roughly 1.38lbs) (bought 2 containers)

 

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In total, it all ended up costing me $27.

 

What do you folks think about this? Any idea how long it'll last me considering the height and age of my 2 dogs?

Thanks!

[m_ly]

Which grocery store did you go to? I can't find backs anywhere!!!

[bigjones4]

I use Crest Groceries, I don't know if it's local or state wide though... I Iive in Oklahoma City and they have 2 where I live, one is a smaller store, the other is a bigger store with a wide selection on meats.

[GoingPostal]

For pricing it pretty much depends on what you can afford, most people try to stay around 1/pound so I'd say you did great!  Your prices and availability are better than mine.  I have to buy in bulk to get under $1 meat, I rarely buy off the shelf meat for the dogs unless it's marked down.  As far as how much they will eat, it really depends on the dog, mine are between 45-55 pounds and eat between 12-16oz a day, they are 4, 7 and 9 and raw fed about two years.  I pack meat in gallon bags mostly and thaw overnight, will last me 2-3 days in the fridge.  You can feed frozen, I do for larger chunks that I can't thaw in the fridge. 

 

Starting out you can pretty much feed just chicken quarters, add gizzards or muscle meat if your dogs have crumbly or dry poop.  If they are having runny poop strip the skin off and feed a bit less, I started all my dogs on skinned quarters a bit less than recommended and added on the skin within a couple days, added boneless within the week and when I started adding in red meats/organs just did an oz or two at first, doubling it each time.  Once they are adjusted they will be getting mostly muscle meat, a little bone in every other day or so and I give organs over 2-3 days, not all in one meal or my dogs get looser stool.  If you follow the start guide and watch your dog you should be fine and you can ask anything here. 

[Prey Model Raw]

Welcome to PMR!

 

Feed nothing but bone in chicken for the first week or two, depending on how your dogs do. You'll most likely want to trim all skin and fat before feeding them, but gradually over time cutting less and less skin and fat off. Eventually feeding whole chicken quarters with skin and fat on is ideal. 

 

Once your dogs are doing consistently well with just chicken you'll add in turkey into the mix. Alternating meals of chicken and turkey. Turkey necks are best for your sized dogs. Wings and drumsticks are fairly dense bones and can be difficult for newly switched dogs to digest. 

 

Once you get through poultry, I suggest adding in pork or beef. Add it in even slower than poultry. 

 

Once your dogs are doing well with bone in and boneless meals, add in organs even slower than you added in boneless meats. Organs are last to be added in.....a few months into the transition is ideal. 

 

Slow and steady wins the race! 

 

Start off with feeding no more than 2% of their weight daily, as you want to start out at the lower end because too much food too fast can cause all sorts of issues. If you notice your dogs losing a bit of weight, you can always add more food in gradually. 

 

Thaw meat out at room temp, and then refrigerate for a few days after that. You can also refreeze anything you thaw out to use at a later time. Dogs handle the bacteria in raw meat so much better than we do, so really that aspect is of little or no concern.

 

Keep us posted on how things go, and don't hesitate to ask any and all questions! 

[naturalfeddogs]

Like Natalie said, start with bone in chicken only. Organs won't come until very last after transitioning through all the different proteins. Don't even worry about them for a couple months at least. Organs are very rich, and you will want to go very slowly with them. VERY slowly. 

 

Glad to have you! Stick around! 

[GimMom]

And I will chime in with if you rush things, it definitely comes back to bite you on the butt. I've experienced this myself, so just go slow and steady like Natalie (Prey Model Raw) said and you should be fine. 

[bigjones4]

Sweet thanks for all the help! I'll just stick to chicken quarters for a week or 2 and keep everything else frozen. I've also got 2 whole chickens (minus the head and feet) any tips on how to turn that into meal sized portions for when they are finally ready to eat it? Is it similar to the breaking down of a turkey video I saw somewhere on here? Do you recommend ziploc, plastic bags or large Tupperware containers to store the food in the fridge/freezer?

[naturalfeddogs]

I have found ziplocks don't take up as much space as containers. All I use containers for now is for thawing, since they do tend to leak sometimes.

[bigjones4]

Do you reuse the ziploc bags or throw them away? If you reuse them what's the secret to properly cleaning them, is there a certain kind of soap I should use?

[GoingPostal]

To break up chickens for dogs I would take off the leg quarters and then halve or quarter what's left depending on size of the dog. It doesn't have to be pretty, just in pieces you can work with.  I have other animals so I usually take the breasts for us, the wings/ribs for my cat and ferrets and the dogs get the leg quarters and the carcass.  I use baggies for storage, they fit better in the freezer but do leak.  I just rinse out with hand soap and dry if they are in good shape. 

[bigjones4]

Alright thanks everybody. Tonight was their last kibble meal hopefully for the rest of their lives, tomorrow I'm going to fast them, then start the new PMR diet on Thursday morning and will continue to feed them the usual 2 meals per day (breakfast and diner). I'm gonna start with 1% of their body weight per day, split into 2 meals, so that's about .5lbs per day for the both of them because they are right around 45lbs . Is that to little for Jeter seeing that he's about 7/8 months and still has growing to do? I've got 20lbs of quarters and about 6lbs of backs&necks, I was planning on starting off with quarters but after reading I have learned that backs are what's recommended, so I'll start with backs and then once they are getting used to it I'll move on to quarters.

[blacksheep]

Is that to little for Jeter seeing that he's about 7/8 months and still has growing to do? I've got 20lbs of quarters and about 6lbs of backs&necks, I was planning on starting off with quarters but after reading I have learned that backs are what's recommended, so I'll start with backs and then once they are getting used to it I'll move on to quarters.

 

If you're going full blown into raw, stick with 2-3%.  Since Jeter has some growing to do, you can make it more of 4%.

All dogs are different.  I got Luna at 4 months and she was at 5% for quite some time because she was very active.  She was still at 4ish% at a year old.  We started feeding her around 2% last year at 2 years old!  Loki I got at 8 months and he was always at 2% even while technically still a puppy.  He could barely finish in the 3% range for his weight and when he finally could, he became a chubster.  

I'd start with quarters because backs tend to be really bony.  A dog that will inhale kibble or that isn't accustomed to fully chewing is more likely to choke on bony meats.  Quarters are pretty straight forward.   You have a thigh and a leg, thats it.  A back is a bunch of small bones.

[Prey Model Raw]

For the first few days start off with 1% and from there increase slowly over the next few days or week. Feeding 2-4% the first few days is a recipe for disaster!

I recommend starting off with backs if you have them because you do want high bone content to start off with. Then over time decrease it by incorporating the leg quarters into the mix.

Keep us posted!

[naturalfeddogs]

Do you reuse the ziploc bags or throw them away? If you reuse them what's the secret to properly cleaning them, is there a certain kind of soap I should use?

 

I have reused them before. I don't use any soap at all, I just rinse them out good and let them dry. (upside down if you can).