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Organ Meat


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#1
AmandaL

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I'm new to raw (still in the leg quarter everyday phase) and just curious for future reference how often you should feed organ meat? I know some people who do a small portion everyday and others who do once a week... Which is best? I have a 57 pound pit mix if this helps. Also, if I wanted to throw in a whole chicken or rabbit and it weighs more than 1.5 pounds (what she gets everyday) what is the best way to go about balancing that out? Thanks!



#2
bigjones4

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Most people try working up to full organ meal weekly; but because it's so rich, you start by separating it into small portions throughout the week, if not you could have some "cannon butt"/"explosive diarreah" issues. He'd need 5% of his total meal ratio per weeks. So if you feed 1.25lbs per day, throughout 7 days that's 8.75lbs per week. Then 5% of 8.75lbs would be 7oz, so that would be the amount of organs he needs weekly.

Liver is the best I believe so if you can only get your hands on one type of organ that would be the one to go for.

A good tip I found on here is you can take the total weight of the rabbit and then judge how many days I should last. So if a rabbit weighs 3lbs and you feed your dog roughly 1.25lbs per day that rabbit could serve as 2 days worth of food. From there, give her the whole rabbit and when she's eaten about half of it, pick it up and store it for another days meal. That seems the easiest way, but if you don't wanna do that you could get a heavy duty knife and cut it into proportionate sizes. However I find that my guys like eating a whole prey as opposed to cut up portions of it, generally the bigger the cut of meat is the more excited they are for it and not many things top a whole animal.

That's a great find though, rabbit here is $7.99/lb so sorry to my 2 but I have to pass giving them rabbit lol
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#3
AmandaL

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Thank you so much for the info! That is very helpful. And yeah I found a butcher with whole rabbits for $4 each :) so excited about that!



#4
Jordann

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BigJones covered it well! :) I'm a bad judge of organ meat, so sometimes my boys get two weeks worth of organs in one feeding, that said though they can handle the rich meat. When I first started out, they got 1/4 of liver for a few days, then 1/2 every other day, then 1/2 every day, then a whole every other day, and slowly worked up that way.

If you wanted to throw her more than 1.5 lbs of food and don't want to take it away from her, you could fast her the next day, or (what my husband prefers I do) feed a smaller meal the next day or two. But when I get whole chickens and give the dogs time to eat what looks to be enough for their daily intake, then take it away and put it in the fridge. The birds I have for them currently are 5.5 and 5.2 lbs. That is about 3 days worth of food. Yesterday the birds were completely frozen, so the dogs didn't eat very much. I got impatient after 20 minutes of them trying to eat enough food, so I took the birds up and threw a drumstick to them, just to make sure they were good. Today they probably ate close to 2 lbs and tomorrow they will finish off the rest of their birds.

Fred Meyer currently has whole birds for 88 cents a pound, limit three, so my husband and I will be pretending we don't know each other, so we can get 6 ... lol I also have two friends who have offered to get the max of three birds too .... In theory we will have 12 birds this week. lol

How is your girl doing on PMR so far? How long have you been feeding? I'm jealous of $4 for a whole rabbit! I'm currently looking for a goat to butcher at the house. So far I haven't had luck. :/

#5
bigjones4

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To give credit where credit is due, my organ knowledge came directly from one of Jordann's post, I actually have it saved in the notes section of my iphone. Seeing that this week is the first week on organs for my 2 I've been referring to your math as a good because Zoey eats 1lb per day (same as Tank) and Jeter eats about 1.25lbs per day. So thanks for your math in that post a while ago.

You gave me the idea to feed them the whole bird and ration it out to fit the desired amount of days lol.

Question though, Jeter and Zoey hate organ meat, which I believe I read somewhere that that isn't rare, some dogs eat it some dogs don't. What's the secret to getting them to eat it??

#6
AmandaL

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Jordann I just started her 2 days ago, so far so good! No poop issues. :) I just bought a crap ton of leg quarters and I'll divide off either the thigh or drum depending on if she needs more bone or boneless added. I find with our butcher its cheaper that way. Would that be a good idea? And I think when she's ready I'll just halve the whole chicken and do it that way. She gets all sad when I take something away before she's done lol. 

 

BigJones I've heard of people very lightly searing the organ just to give it more of a "human food" smell and that will usually entice them to eat it. And then sear it less and less each time until you find their tolerance or until they will eat it completely raw. I'm nervous about how Bella will take that when the time comes lol. She started at the leg quarters the first day like I was insane for giving her that weird stuff haha. Quite the dog she is. 



#7
Jordann

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You can sear it, but Natalie has had better luck with opening their mouths and putting the liver down their throat. My boys trusted that whatever I offered (except for Calvin and fish) was food. The slurp up the liver and never believe its really gone. lol

AmandaL, that's great she's not given you any issues yet! Natalie has a YouTube video of how to break down a whole turkey, but if you don't want to take food away from your girl, the video could easily be used for a chicken ... I'm just lazy and ignore the boys when they try the puppy eyes. lol The first two or three days I had to hold the chicken quarter for Calvin, because neither dog cared for raw chicken, but Tank didn't care once he realized that was our new food. lol Now they are more than happy to chow down on raw chicken. :)

#8
bigjones4

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That's what I did yesterday with the organs.. I got called out on here for having to do that with zoey so I didn't want to tell the forum I was forced to do it again. She refuses to eat if no matter what I do so hopefully she'll get tired of me forcing liver down her throat and just eat it lol
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#9
Jordann

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Lol, I remember that. I went back and checked and in the getting started guide under weeks 7 & 8 is where she says that's what they do.

Can you try hiding some liver (or whatever organ) in the whole chicken? Or maybe cut a slit in the meatiest part of whatever you're feeding her and shove some liver in that way?

Or what Jenny told me she did with fish oil capsules (one of her dogs detests the fish oil like Calvin) is she would hide them in ground meat, but her dog got smart to that, and stopped eating those. lol Right now I hide Calvin's fish oil in a piece of bread that gets balled up, and so far he has taken the oil well. He will get smart to the bread soon, then I will be forcing the oil down his throat probably twice a week.

There are many different opinions on here. You just gotta find what works best for you and your pups. Searing doesn't work for me, because I'm lazy, and don't want the dogs to get used to me doctoring their food. The bread is bad enough, but what works for me may or may not work for someone else.

Too bad Zoey pukes frozen food, that was another suggestion on the getting started page. Crazy you're already to the organ stage with your two!

#10
AmandaL

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Bigjones you got called out for searing it? I know the goal is to be completely raw but you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes in the beginning. Lol in my opinion at least. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Bella gets fish oil pills too and thank goodness is a champ about it. Takes them with little to no resistance. 
 
Also.. Kind of off topic, I found whole chickens for $1 a pound so im pumped about that! And do either of you have opinions on lamb shanks? I found those too for later on when we start new proteins. Didn't know if they'd be a good option? They're pretty reasonably priced and most likely the only lamb she'll be getting because of price lol. 


#11
GoingPostal

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I give organs usually 3-4oz per day, several days a week with bone or not depending on the dog, my oldest needs bone with organ or has gooey poo, the other two it doesn't matter so much and they can eat more organ at once.  None of my dogs have ever turned their nose up at organ meat but you can always try freezing, or mashing it up with a food processor and mixing with hamburger.  For large meals I just let them gorge for a bit and take it away for the next day(s), or you can feed a big meal and fast the following day.  It's pretty easy to manage weight on raw ime.


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#12
bigjones4

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Amanda, I got called out for putting hearts into the back of zoeys throat lol.. She wouldn't eat boneless unless I did and her poo was crumbling as it was coming out. Drastic times called for drastic measures. Now she eats heart without a fuss.

I've never come across lamb shanks so I've never fed them. My dad likes to cook them, random fact. But I have no idea how they'd be for dogs. I don't believe lamb bone is to dense but I may be wrong so don't quote me.

#13
GimMom

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If I give Gimli organ, I HAVE to give it with a bone meal. Sometimes it's a straight back and some liver, just because he's so sensitive. Snorf can wolf down things with buttloads of fat and not have a single issue, and since he was fed some chicken livers (the only organ he likes!) with his kibble before I got him, he was good to go when I gave a full organ meal.

 

Someone got called out for searing? That sucks. I don't like searing either, but you gotta do what you gotta do.



#14
Jordann

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Not searing, forcing the organs into Zoey. Different opinions from different folks. :)

#15
RescueMutts

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I feed organs spread throughout the week.  I cut up and portion each dog's amount of weekly organs into an individual bag.  It's simple for me because I know they're getting their 5% of liver and 5% of kidney, give or take a little bit (organs still attached to backs, etc) and don't have to portion every day.  Sadly, I haven't been able to find any other kinds of organs.  I open up a new bag for each of them on Saturday and make sure they're empty by Friday.  One may get 2-3 pieces one day, while the other two get no organs, if their poops are borderline too soft and they'll make up for it later in the week.  I usually feed kidney with boneless and liver with bone.  I don't feel it necessary to work up to a full organ meal for us - we don't have loose poop issues right now and don't want to start them.  Plus, 2 out of 3 love their organs and are the first things they eat out of the bowl every day.  That may change for them if I overload a meal with it.

 

My old man will eat any organs thawed out with no problems.  My girl loved chicken and turkey livers but spat out beef liver & kidney.  She loves them frozen though, thankfully.  She has issues keeping a meal down if it isn't fully thawed but has no trouble with frozen organs.  If anyone has a dog with the same issue, I'd still try frozen organs if they aren't eating them thawed.  My little guy would eat any organs thawed until one random day.  He said no to all of them and so started the challenge.  Tried tossing them to him like a treat, worked well but only once.  Smart little bugger.  He loves pumpkin but hates it with a passion if it's touched by organs in the slightest so mixing the two didn't work.  Gus LOVES flaxseed oil though and will happily eat organs if they're coated with it.  Unfortunately, I don't like feeding that too often and after a few times, realized it makes him itchy.  Back to the drawing board.  He's not very fond of salmon oil so that did not work either.  I tried offering only frozen organ pieces in his bowl before the rest of his meal.  He'd eat them all and then look for the rest of his meal.  This works some days but not always.  I recently bought them some ground beef (grass fed).  I cut his pieces up very small and mix it in with the beef.  Success!  He happily inhales it all.

 

Sorry for the long story but I just wanted to list all of what I've tried.  It can be simple as feeding frozen or take you ten times to learn what will sell your dog on them.  Time to get creative. :)



#16
naturalfeddogs

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I personally prefer to feed a whole organ meal weekly. It just works for us, but sometimes I will feed turkey organs like liver and gizzards during the week when I catch packs on sale.

#17
amie s

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I'm late to the conversation because I haven't been here in a while. The main reason is once my dogs were transitioned fully everything seemed to be going really well. That is no longer the case and I'm getting a little worried. Specifically, my kiddos (both Boxers) have extremely loose dark poops (though I'm not sure you can call them that) when I feed them beef liver. As far as organs go I have been sticking mostly with beef liver because my understanding was that liver was the best organ to feed and also I can barely tolerate kidney. I do feed them chicken liver also, but I don't seem to have the trouble with the poop while feeding chicken, though I can honestly say, I haven't put a ton of stock in the poop situation because it can very so much and I know my dogs are getting a healthy diet. Having said that I have been feeding mostly chicken quarters and getting some sardines and pork and turkey and beef in the diet in between. I started to think that perhaps the horrible poops had to do with the kids not getting enough beef to be used to. So I went back and did small portions of liver with beef for a whole week and nothing has changed. Clearly they cannot handle an entire meal of beef liver. Am I doing something wrong? I had been giving them a whole meal of liver one day a week.

 

Additionally, my female has started doing a lot of barfing up bone frags and foam. The first time I didn't worry about it. These things happen. But now it is happening every day to some extent. I started out feeding my kids about 2 pounds per day (my female would NOT gain weight on kibble) now that she is a healthy weight, maybe a pound or two over and my male is definitely a pound or two over I have scaled back to about 1.5 pounds per day. Could she be barfing because she isn't getting enough?

 

I'm getting worried and not sure what to do. Now that they are fully transitioned is it still a no-no to give more than one type of protein in the meal? In other words can they have beef and chicken liver together?

 

Also, I have started VERY recently to start a rotation of foods instead of a couple days of this then a couple days of that. I am trying to do a whole week of one protein then moving on to another. Am I really over thinking things? It's been almost a year since we started feeding raw and I'm so happy with it. Could I still be doing something wrong?

 

So those of you who feed liver WITH bone, how are you doing that? Are you feeding beef liver with chicken legs? or ???

 

Thanks for the help.



#18
GimMom

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I totally feel your pain, I went overboard on the chicken livers this morning after a beef meal last night and Gimli squirted the dark stuff all over my livingroom floor. Honestly, he's back and forth with organs, because sometimes he's fine and has normal poops. I find the best way to give him organ is to serve a small amount (like a small portion of the weekly organ meal) everyday or other day with a bone meal, like chicken leg quarters or a turkey neck. Anything that has a decent amount of bone seems to balance him out.

 

And I've mixed proteins before. Sometimes, I give some beef or pork heart with a chicken back or drumstick, or some turkey meat. I don't think it's an issue, people serve mixed bag meals all the time.

 

What I'm trying to do with my guys is once I can, work them down to ONE meal a day, probably late afternoon/evening and then fasting them again. So if they gorge on a whole chicken at say 8pm, I wouldn't give them any more until say maybe 7pm the net day. Varying the times is ideal because it doesn't get them set in a routine, and working on larger meat portions gives them a better sense of satisfaction when they're working harder at getting their food.



#19
amie s

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Do you think the barfing is because she is hungry?



#20
GimMom

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It might be, my little Pug sometimes gets the hunger pukes, too. If you're feeding two meals a day, try feeding them closer together if you can and then gradually increase the time between meals. That should help get her used to not having a full tummy all the time like they do on kibble.

 

 

As for variation, I have a friend who feeds mostly chicken through the week and then adds in other proteins on the weekend. I feed mostly chicken, too, since it's more affordable, and then throw in turkey necks and beef heart when I can get a lot of it.

 

I forgot to mention with the organs that it's best to add that gradually, much like red meats because they're so rich. Gimli had to go VERY slow. Pippin is a little sturdier in the GI area, he can do whole meals of organs with a bit of breast meat and have no problems at all. So if your kids are having the diarrhea, scale back the organs, give them bone heavy meals until the diarrhea clears up and you have firm poops again, and then just add a tiny bit to a meal and work up to larger portions again.






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