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Getting Started - Some Questions

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#1
bearinski

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Hello - the site has been reccomended a few times so here i am.  We'v read and read and are now taking the plunge.  We are going to follow the Getting Started method on this site.  We have a 4 year old small dog (20#) and a Puppy Doberman (currently 40# but should get to 85#.  Currently 15 weeks)

 

We will be starting with Chicken backs for the first few days then alternating with leg quarters.  We've resourced a meat wholesaler through a co-op and get get stuff pretty cheap at this point but proces change.

Question:  The chick back is alot of bone.  Following the 80-10-10 ideal.  Should i have concern feeding just backs?  Should i have any concern or need to supliment at this point because of the strict chicken only?

 

 

At week 3 (or sooner if we get solid stool for 7 days) we are going to add Turkey Necks. 

Question:  Any reccomentation on a Turkey cut thats has a little more meat (I also read that Turkey wings spliter and to avoid)?  I have the same question on Pork.  Can get pork necks pretty cheap but they are less meaty.  Im just a little worried about the high bone count and the majority of meat comming from a chicken quarter.  It doesnt seem balanced.  Everything read says the majority should be muscle tissue.

 

For the Puppy - Should i leave a little more fat on the necks for the growing boy or trim it up nice?

 

Any advice would be very appreciated?  Honestly im a liitle nervous to start this for frear of the bones. 

 

 

Thanks so much

Bear



#2
bearinski

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Just realized i put this is the wrong section.  Can a mod move this to the questions section?



#3
blacksheep

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If you can help it, start with the quarters and then move to the backs.  Backs are more of an advanced food.  Even if your dogs don't reject it, there is a choking hazard because of how small the bones are (in my honest opinion.)  Backs are VERY bony so you may need to add in more meat sooner.  Stool will be firm, but not the good kind of firm.  More like the constipated kind of firm.

 

If you fed all necks, your dogs would stop up like a plug.  I only feed turkey necks when I'm feeding an organ meat with the neck.  Currently, I only feed chicken backs if I have fed another meat (usually breast) the day before or plan on it the day after.

 

Don't trim fat.  Fat is good.  No.  Fat is GREAT!  Fat is full of vitamins and will make for a good coat.

 

Overall you are planning on feeding way too much bone.  There are other cuts of meat that a butcher might sell you cheap based on your area.  Example.  Where I live, its impossible to find tripe.  Nobody buys it here.  IF I lived near a butcher, I'm sure I could get tripe pretty cheap.  However it is VERY expensive just a few miles south because it is a very ethnically diverse area with people who culturally eat stuff like tripe.  What we'd consider "normal" cuts of meat are cheaper in that area.



#4
Erica

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Welcome to the site! :)

 

When starting out with chicken it's important to limit the chances of any upset by limiting to just chicken - you can add supplements down the road further into transition.  (that goes for fat also, cut off most fat and slowly leave more and more on as their guts become used to it) Your dogs will not suddenly collapse if they've been on chicken for acouple weeks before continuing to another protein. You will achieve balance over time, rushing into things just asks for GI upset. Your small dog will most likely be overwhelmed/unable to handle the backs, and not a good choice for them - drummettes or wings or necks or ok, and your dobie will do just fine on quarters/backs. Starting out it's ok to feed lots of bony pieces to bulk up the poop to avoid diarrhea. You will not feed super bony pieces for the rest of their life so in the beginning gradually increase the amount of muscle meat, unless you know your dog has an iron gut and can handle more meat sooner. If your leg quarters are super cheap, it's because they hardly have any meat of them. Look into other sources.

 

Bones will only splinter if cooked. Raw bones are pliable/flexible/soft. Bits and pieces may chip off while they're eating/thrown up, but unless they come out looking like knives, they're fine to ...re-eat! Use your best judgment and supervise all feedings. Avoid weight-bearing bones and if you know if your pups are normal/light/powerful chewers, will determine what kinds of bony pieces they can handle. I thought Max would be able to handle pork necks due to his powerful jaws, but nope. Those bones are too hard for him. I let him eat most of the meat off and then toss them in the trash, but will no longer purchase no matter how cheap.

 

Turkey wings may or may not be a good option for transition becuase the skin is hard to take off and unless the stomach is used to all that skin, stick with a neck here and there, and look into buying whole turkeys. Whole turkeys, for us, are cheaper than buying individual pieces, plus you get every part of the turkey at your disposal! There is a wonderful viddy on youtube that Natalie (the site ownr) posted on how to break one down. PLus, it's tons of fun :D

 

 

This page should help you when deciding!

http://preymodelraw....o-raw-meaty-r15

 

 

 

Hope all helps ! Keep us posted on their first Day :)


  • Jordann and holycrapaiofe like this

#5
naturalfeddogs

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I feed mine turkey and they do fine with the bone, but the bone is denser than chicken. For meatier turkey cuts, you can try bone in thighs. I feed them too, and they are pretty meaty with just one bone. 

 

Also, turkey backs seem to be a little less dense than say legs or wings. So you could feed a boneless cut and just add a back with it. Or a neck even. they are easy to get through as well.

 

You don't need to supplement. You are going to be moving through the proteins enough that you will be fine. You can just add a meatier cut, and move on to the next protein once that one is done.



#6
holycrapaiofe

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As Erica said, you don't need to worry about your pup getting the correct ratio when first starting out and it can actually do more harm than good. The boney meats help solidify the poop and minimize the digestive upset. Once they are used to the various proteins, you can start focusing on making sure you're getting that PMR ratio, but don't worry about it in the beginning!

 

I am on week three of the "getting started" guide from this forum and after seeing how my dog handled this method, I will probably not do it any other way in the future for my future animals. Our dog only had diarrhea the first day; it has been smooth sailing ever since. No vomitting. She's taken to it super easily. I've never actually cut any of the skin off of my cuts - I was recommended to, but I hadn't read that message until day 3 of our transition and our puppy has never had a problem digesting skin, but that's my puppy. I watch her the entire time she eats, only take away sharp pieces of bone that she managed to shred off, and I look at every single poop she delivers to make sure that everything is still looking good! (:



#7
Prey Model Raw

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How are your dogs doing through the transition?



#8
bearinski

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Hey folks. Sorry for my lack of response. Life happens sometimes ya know:)

Thank you guys for the advice its all being put into practice. Except im trimming the fat.

We.are.following to start guid to a tee. Friday was fast day and this am was their first feeding. The pup had 2 backs and the little one had a drumstick. It went really well despite my nerves.

They pooped once each. Its big D as.expected. no worries

For dinner the pup had another back, and a drumstick. I almost had a heart attack with the drumstick.. he swallowed the whole.thing and had a hard time getting it down. NO MORE drumsticks for puppy. We are.going to ttrya leg quarter.

The little one had a back for dinner and had no issues tearing it up.

All in all a successful first day :)
Oh, gave the pup a chicken neck too and he swallowed whole. But they are tiny. Will probablly use them as treats:)

#9
holycrapaiofe

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Oh my gosh, I feel your nerves with the swallowing of the drumstick, lol. Our puppy broke off the big meat chunk from the leg quarter, she chomps the drumstick (pretty sure that's what's left) once or twice and then swallows it all. She's a beast.

But she doesn't have a hard time swallowing it, so I can't relate there. I think I would panic like crazy. The first few times freaked me out though, lol!

#10
bearinski

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He chomped once on the drumstick, no crunch. He did'nt even eat the meat. then down the hatch..

He tried gagging it up but couldn't. He couldnt even make the gag sound but was trying. It was stuck. I freaked thinking how do I do the heimlich on a dog. Lol sheesh.

Lesson learned. Drumsticks are to small. Hopefully a whole quarter will make him chew.

#11
bearinski

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Is holding the food to force chewing a good idea or bad habit to get into?

#12
bearinski

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Tmi? Im guessing poop is a regular topic here so ill continue :)

Pup woke up in the middle of the night frantic to go outside. Took him and he had more D.

But this morning after breakfast both dogs went out and had some solid relief! Thats great!

Another question- I was expecting more poop. For the amount the pup eats I expected more poop. But its not like that. There is far far less poop quantity. Is that normal?  Is it because he is utilizing more? 

 

Todays menu- more backs. And probably some nexks during training for treats.



#13
Prey Model Raw

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Sometimes lessons have to be learned from experience! Definitely feed meals that have to be chomped, crunched or ripped up before they swallow.

Less poop is normal. And awesome! Less waste!

#14
bearinski

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Yup lesson learned:) I gave him a frozen neck to see if it would encourage chewing and it did. He chomped a few times on the neck then swallowed. Where as unfrozen he just swallows.

The little one is a very meticulous chewer im seeing. At least one is. Lol



#15
holycrapaiofe

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I pretty much always give our meat frozen versus thawed. She works harder for frozen and doesn't swallow gigantic chunks. I probably wouldn't hold the meat, but that's just me. I don't want our dog to be dependent on us for anything.

And as Natalie said - less poop is normal! Our dog eats about two pounds a day and will poop maybe 6-10 little lumps the entire day. They are able to utilize more of what they eat which causes smaller waste (from my understanding anyway).

#16
Jordann

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Is holding the food to force chewing a good idea or bad habit to get into?


When I started my boys, my hound wasn't happy about the chicken, so I held the quarters for him for a few days, but then he got the hang of things.

Larger cuts of meat help with chewing, also feeding partially or fully frozen really slows them down and forces them to chew. (like Liz said)

Glad things are looking good from their butts! :) I felt horrible when I saw the raw poops and how little they were, kinda made me mad that so much was wasted. Gotta live in the now, though.

It's helpful to have at least one make the transition well! The pup will catch up! We are here for support for you guys. :)

#17
bearinski

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Yeah it does bug me a little to known how much waste there was in kibble. The difference is kind of remarkable when comparing the 2 poops. I'm amazed :)

Now I gotta source the turkey for that protein introduction. But i got a couple weeks to go before its needed.

So far ive got backs, need to find some meaty stuff.

#18
bearinski

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Yeah it does bug me a little to known how much waste there was in kibble. The difference is kind of remarkable when comparing the 2 poops. I'm amazed :)

Now I gotta source the turkey for that protein introduction. But i got a couple weeks to go before its needed.

So far ive got backs, need to find some meaty stuff.

#19
bearinski

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Yeah it does bug me a little to known how much waste there was in kibble. The difference is kind of remarkable when comparing the 2 poops. I'm amazed :)

Now I gotta source the turkey for that protein introduction. But i got a couple weeks to go before its needed.

So far ive got backs, need to find some meaty stuff.

#20
Jordann

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If butchers around can't or won't order turkey necks in for you, check with meat departments of stores (Safeway, Walmart, Fred Meyer, etc). The managers may be able to get something in for you. :)

Also keep an eye out for whole turkey when it goes on sale. They are crazy easy to break into meals, with a video Natalie posted. I can break down a 20 lb thawed bird and have it bagged up in 7 minutes. The video is a VERY helpful tool to have! :)




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